Heat Tape

[ewaldrep]

Thanks Ed for discussing your product on this forum. I for one have heard enough that I will be planning on staying with Flexwatt for my own use and I look forward to you having a dedicated reptile rep. I will stick with Reptile basics for the majority of my products but I think I am going to stay away from the heat tape for now. I imagine it would take quite some time to test hundreds of strips of heat tape in varying conditions, and not just the ideal use conditions, before we could have a reasonable expectation of the product's safety and I would not be willing to jeapordize my home for a couple of dollars or because of un-needed bulky clips.

[3skulls]

I can try to get some pics up but you might be able to find better pics from the people making the racks and cages.

Boaphile
Animal Plastics

Pretty much all the cages are set as follows.

PVC cage
Flexwatt taped to the bottom.
PVC cage
Flexwatt taped to the bottom

So your product is sandwiched in-between the PVC caging. Would it be better to have an air gap between the caging?


I guess the questions about the probes would be best for the T-stat company.

But how about the connections . Does your company provide the clips or are they an aftermarket item? What's best to seal those connections, electrical tape, liquid tape?
I read a lot of people say that soldering is way better than the clips. Is that true?
How about the other end, where the cut is. What's the best way to seal those ends?

[ewaldrep]

I read a lot of people say that soldering is way better than the clips. Is that true?
How about the other end, where the cut is. What's the best way to seal those ends?

I thinkt he soldering is in addition to the clips increase the connection, and here is the tape sold by bean farm to replace the clips, probably sold at home depot or another hardware store.

http://beanfarm.com/product_info.php...oducts_id=5958

[Reptilebasics]

Ed-

First let me say that the posting of sales information like that is about the least professional thing I have ever seen a professional do in a public forum. That is a completely separate issue from any product disagreements we may have. It is also yet another symptom of a greater issue with Calorique that I have had building for some time now and why you have yourself a new competitor.

That being said- I am not going to bother adding up my purchases from you but it at least that. I would not have shared it for the above reasons either way but since you seem to run pretty loose with this information I don't really mind it. In fact since you brought a few things up lets put some of them to bed.

I do not at all care where your laminate comes from. The David guy seemed all excited about such things. Kathy has numerous times over the years told me that we were waiting on laminate from China to arrive. I will go on the assumption that all materials in your product are USA from here on out. Problem solved.

We- THG- has decided there is not a compelling reason to tell our competitor much of anything. We spent a lot of time and energy selecting a manufacturer that could do a great job for us. They do not have experience in the reptile field per se but that is where we come in. They have 10+ years experience and some very sexy equipment. They have been ultra responsive to our needs, questions and concerns during this process and we are very happy with the results. The country of origin was not considered since USA was out right from the start (there is no other that I am aware of in the USA) and price, though obviously has an impact, was not a consideration. The quality, appearance and function as well as service and willingness to work in a new market were the primary drivers. As it turned out pricing was pretty similar all around anyhow but the other factors listed were very different from company to company. Just like in the USA or anywhere else.

Speaking as RBI now- You guys are out of your minds. Your loose care of confidential info is just the last nail in that coffin. I directly TOLD Mike Collins at Calorique a few years ago this very thing would happen if a few things did not change. He made all sorts of promises to look into things, change things and possibly change things. He wanted to know what other products we could expand into. He approached me. I spent a fair amount of my time with him trying to do just that with him. I was blown off or B.S.'ed every step of the way. I did not expect most of it to come to pass but some pretend follow up would have been nice as it was his idea to start with. While your staff there has always been polite to me but same thing. One time I am told there is a 10 roll price then when I ask about it 3 or 4 more times to follow up I get double talk and I gave up and the list goes on. I tried having Calorique produce the element for my radiant panels, blown off. You guys blew it. I have spent countless hours answering customer emails, forum questions and the like selling your product. I have been instrumental in developing your market for you. You had countless opportunities to work with me on ways to improve, change and expand your product. You have at every turn failed. I have always very politely been treated as an after thought by everyone there. That is all the help you are getting from me on fixing what I consider to be the problems there. Based on your replies here I don't see that changing any time soon either. Sure is funny how the insignificant money got all

Now THG and RBI- We see no point in continuing what will inevitably degrade into a pissing contest in a public forum. This started with a pretty blatant attack on us, though not from Calorique, put us in a position of defending ourselves. As far as we are concerned we will have to respectfully disagree with Calorique on a number of points and they will have to do the same. We can test and they can test, round and round. Frankly if I want to create a test to get a rat turd to heat a cage I could probably come up with one. Lets just say there are now two players on the field and leave it at that.

So lets get back to positive- What we can tell you for those that do not already know us- All of the members of the THG group have 20+ years in the reptile field. We have kept it all and used it all to do so over the years. I (RBI) have extensive experience in the field of heating and controlling and also a track record with designing, manufacturing and using products like this. We are here to answer your reptile related heating questions and will be for a long time to come. Our product is new and there is no way to give you a long term track record with it for that reason but I have also been down this road with radiant panels and thermostats and have been quite successful. We (all of us) will be with you for a very long time to come and those that have seen our product, touched our product and used our product have all been very pleased. The website will be updated as new manuals, information, pictures and products become available in the coming couple of weeks. We were forced on our release date by other factors and would have preferred a couple of more weeks to get all of this up for you guys but we will get it done!

[PitOnTheProwl]

Now THG and RBI- We see no point in continuing what will inevitably degrade into a pissing contest in a public forum. This started with a pretty blatant attack on us, though not from Calorique, put us in a position of defending ourselves. As far as we are concerned we will have to respectfully disagree with Calorique on a number of points and they will have to do the same. We can test and they can test, round and round. Frankly if I want to create a test to get a rat turd to heat a cage I could probably come up with one. Lets just say there are now two players on the field and leave it at that.

I can respect that.

[BFE Pets]

not that my $.02 counts for much but this is where I stand on the subject. Rich... Hands down man you have the best customer service via internet sales that i personally have ever had the pleasure to deal with. Reptile related or any other for that mattter. That alone is enough of a reason that I will continue to do business with Reptile Basics in the years to come. I truely appreciate the effort you go through to satisfy your customers! Love of the game or just a good business sense either way keep up the great work! As for Ed at Flexx watt or Calorique what ever the name is.... You coming into our community to comment and your willingness to try and help says a lot for you also. We as a community don't know you. You are an outsider to us. That said it will take a lot to gain our trust. You may in fact have a supierior product but until THG has the chance to prove themselves or not most of us will continue to follow the path of well known and respected members of this community such as PE, SYR, and RBI. I hope that you suceed in finding a suitable reptile person to spear head your foot hold back into this hobby. Competition between business is a good thing for the public. It will do nothing but improve products and keep pricing competitive. Errors have been made on both parts in this debate. Lets not have a pissing match. after all everything that has or not happened is purely hearsay to everyone reading this thread other than to the 2 that are leading the discussion. Good Luck to both bussiness' and may the best product win.

[kitedemon]

Rich straight question, is the connection system you have developed UL approved or not?

I take no sides, and have only a single loyalty, my animals, period. I respect your reputation, and what you are trying to do. The simple fact is easy if the connector is not UL approved I cannot use it in Canada legally. I hate the clips. They frankly suck. I paid an electrician to wire my flexwatt so I could remain on the correct side of criminal liability. I am looking in the near future to building a new rack and again, need heating. I had planned on ultratherm panels as it meets all my criteria and ultimately is far cheaper. I would love to try the new tape and connector assuming it does not place me on the wrong side of the law. has it been approved for use by UL?

[3skulls]

I take no sides, and have only a single loyalty, my animals, period.

X2

I have an order from RBI in the mail as I type this.



***edit. Sorry, misread it.

[Ed gilmartin]

Ed-

First let me say that the posting of sales information like that is about the least professional thing I have ever seen a professional do in a public forum. That is a completely separate issue from any product disagreements we may have. It is also yet another symptom of a greater issue with Calorique that I have had building for some time now and why you have yourself a new competitor.

That being said- I am not going to bother adding up my purchases from you but it at least that. I would not have shared it for the above reasons either way but since you seem to run pretty loose with this information I don't really mind it. In fact since you brought a few things up lets put some of them to bed.

I do not at all care where your laminate comes from. The David guy seemed all excited about such things. Kathy has numerous times over the years told me that we were waiting on laminate from China to arrive. I will go on the assumption that all materials in your product are USA from here on out. Problem solved.

We- THG- has decided there is not a compelling reason to tell our competitor much of anything. We spent a lot of time and energy selecting a manufacturer that could do a great job for us. They do not have experience in the reptile field per se but that is where we come in. They have 10+ years experience and some very sexy equipment. They have been ultra responsive to our needs, questions and concerns during this process and we are very happy with the results. The country of origin was not considered since USA was out right from the start (there is no other that I am aware of in the USA) and price, though obviously has an impact, was not a consideration. The quality, appearance and function as well as service and willingness to work in a new market were the primary drivers. As it turned out pricing was pretty similar all around anyhow but the other factors listed were very different from company to company. Just like in the USA or anywhere else.

Speaking as RBI now- You guys are out of your minds. Your loose care of confidential info is just the last nail in that coffin. I directly TOLD Mike Collins at Calorique a few years ago this very thing would happen if a few things did not change. He made all sorts of promises to look into things, change things and possibly change things. He wanted to know what other products we could expand into. He approached me. I spent a fair amount of my time with him trying to do just that with him. I was blown off or B.S.'ed every step of the way. I did not expect most of it to come to pass but some pretend follow up would have been nice as it was his idea to start with. While your staff there has always been polite to me but same thing. One time I am told there is a 10 roll price then when I ask about it 3 or 4 more times to follow up I get double talk and I gave up and the list goes on. I tried having Calorique produce the element for my radiant panels, blown off. You guys blew it. I have spent countless hours answering customer emails, forum questions and the like selling your product. I have been instrumental in developing your market for you. You had countless opportunities to work with me on ways to improve, change and expand your product. You have at every turn failed. I have always very politely been treated as an after thought by everyone there. That is all the help you are getting from me on fixing what I consider to be the problems there. Based on your replies here I don't see that changing any time soon either. Sure is funny how the insignificant money got all

Now THG and RBI- We see no point in continuing what will inevitably degrade into a pissing contest in a public forum. This started with a pretty blatant attack on us, though not from Calorique, put us in a position of defending ourselves. As far as we are concerned we will have to respectfully disagree with Calorique on a number of points and they will have to do the same. We can test and they can test, round and round. Frankly if I want to create a test to get a rat turd to heat a cage I could probably come up with one. Lets just say there are now two players on the field and leave it at that.

So lets get back to positive- What we can tell you for those that do not already know us- All of the members of the THG group have 20+ years in the reptile field. We have kept it all and used it all to do so over the years. I (RBI) have extensive experience in the field of heating and controlling and also a track record with designing, manufacturing and using products like this. We are here to answer your reptile related heating questions and will be for a long time to come. Our product is new and there is no way to give you a long term track record with it for that reason but I have also been down this road with radiant panels and thermostats and have been quite successful. We (all of us) will be with you for a very long time to come and those that have seen our product, touched our product and used our product have all been very pleased. The website will be updated as new manuals, information, pictures and products become available in the coming couple of weeks. We were forced on our release date by other factors and would have preferred a couple of more weeks to get all of this up for you guys but we will get it done!

Rich
First and foremost I do want to apologize for the numbers I put up there. it was an accident. I am not familiar with using these forums and it probably shows with my posts repeating multiple times. I cant even work the spell check and it shows. I did not mean to post that publicly. I was addressing a comment and it should not have happened. I apologize again.

What you spoke about with an independant sales agent, Mike, I am not aware of. He had no business making any promises to anyone. Yes I have admitted that your industry was treated as an afterthought and that we dont really understand it. We never got any complaints so we thought if it is not broken dont fix it. I would never have got involved until you posted inncorrect and misleading info about Calorique. Kathy never once said we were waiting for laminate from China. We have always been loyal to the US supply chain and never once bought anything from outside the US. I just spoke with Kathy and she is shocked that this is going on. She said you and her had nothing but a good relationship and never any issues over the years.

I wish you all the best wiht your business but I know you are making a serious mistake with the Korean product. The connectors alone are a danger without even mentioning the inks instability. I am not sure who makes this product for you and what testing you did to determine this was a safe product but I would be careful. Everyone in your industry seems to love your company and it would be a shame to let a Korean product ruin your name. I will fight any korean versions of our product that tries to come to the US. They jeopardize our whole business. When they fail and cause safety concerns people think all thin film radiant heat is to blame. I have a lot of good workers here and I will NOT let a cheap foreign product put their jobs in jeopardy by getting our product a bad name. If you did detailed testing and this manufacturer is a reputible company then I encourage you to be transparrant about who they are. it will only benefit everyone. I will continue to post on all forums the differences of our products as well as videos of our plant etc. I want this to be open and clear. i highly recomend you do the same for your new product so we can compare products and manufacturers and let everyone decide what they feel most comfortable with. You attacked Calorique because a breader from your industry called a spade a spade. that was not right and I encourage you to be open about what your product actually is and who is making it. Again I apologize for the mistake I made.

[PitOnTheProwl]

Rich straight question, is the connection system you have developed UL approved or not?

Sure glade I am not in Canada LOL, you cant just solder the connections and have them done right the first time?
I am not a huge fan of the crimp connectors but I do like the rivet a lot more.
I personally think the rivet will last longer and is stronger than the crimp on IF done right.