Gaboon vipers

[Crotalids]

I have worked with 3 of the 5 large bitis. I absolutly love them. They are without question my favorite family of snakes followed closely by Atheris. I completely agree with the people here that have stated both that Bitis are not for beginners and that aggressive non venomous snakes are all but useless for training you to keep hots. I have been keeping reptiles for 20 years, and hots for almost 15. I have worked with many species of crotalus, aboreal vipers, many vipers both new and old world, and some elapids. And I can say that without question that gaboons, out of all the many 100's if not 1000's of animals I have worked with are probably the most challenging of all the specimens I have kept. They are without a doubt the most difficult to read in terms of what they are about to do. And adults are so heavy that they are very difficult to lift with even 2 hooks. And tailing a Bitis of any size is IMO an action that is very much taking your life in your hands. Find someone that can show you the ropes if you can. If you can't than I would advise you to at least start with a hot that will not more than likely result in a probably fatal bite if you do make a mistake. Gabs are awsome! But defiantly not be novice keepers. Be safe.

I agree with everything you've said, but I don't agree with them not being good for a first time hot keeper.

Many people keep atrox as a first hot, and although they aren't built as heavily, they generally are far more nutty and tricker to hook.

What makes a gaboon bad for a first hot? If you cannot bring yourself to not underestimate these snakes, do you deserve to keep any hots at all? You should always over estimate regardless of whether the snake shows defensive signals or not.

My two gabs were my first snakes, forget about venomous snakes. I didn't keep non venomous at all. But I had experience dealing with large gabs, puff adders etc.

A friend of mine has the perfect hook for large Bitis. It is almost shovel like, the hook is about 7 inches wide, and is perfect to take big Gaboons out on and they sit perfectly on it.

Many people do tail Gaboons, however I'm with you. I personally would not do it at all, they are far too 'athletic' when it comes to striking.

I will try to get a picture of the hook my friend has, it's really useful.

Have you come across any of the 'dwarf' gabs? A few of my friends have adult Gaboons that are 6-7 years old and are only 3 foot.

[jason_ladouceur]

I agree with everything you've said, but I don't agree with them not being good for a first time hot keeper.

Many people keep atrox as a first hot, and although they aren't built as heavily, they generally are far more nutty and tricker to hook.

What makes a gaboon bad for a first hot? If you cannot bring yourself to not underestimate these snakes, do you deserve to keep any hots at all? You should always over estimate regardless of whether the snake shows defensive signals or not.

My two gabs were my first snakes, forget about venomous snakes. I didn't keep non venomous at all. But I had experience dealing with large gabs, puff adders etc.

A friend of mine has the perfect hook for large Bitis. It is almost shovel like, the hook is about 7 inches wide, and is perfect to take big Gaboons out on and they sit perfectly on it.

Many people do tail Gaboons, however I'm with you. I personally would not do it at all, they are far too 'athletic' when it comes to striking.

I will try to get a picture of the hook my friend has, it's really useful.

Have you come across any of the 'dwarf' gabs? A few of my friends have adult Gaboons that are 6-7 years old and are only 3 foot.

First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

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I agree with everything you've said, but I don't agree with them not being good for a first time hot keeper.

Many people keep atrox as a first hot, and although they aren't built as heavily, they generally are far more nutty and tricker to hook.

What makes a gaboon bad for a first hot? If you cannot bring yourself to not underestimate these snakes, do you deserve to keep any hots at all? You should always over estimate regardless of whether the snake shows defensive signals or not.

My two gabs were my first snakes, forget about venomous snakes. I didn't keep non venomous at all. But I had experience dealing with large gabs, puff adders etc.

A friend of mine has the perfect hook for large Bitis. It is almost shovel like, the hook is about 7 inches wide, and is perfect to take big Gaboons out on and they sit perfectly on it.

Many people do tail Gaboons, however I'm with you. I personally would not do it at all, they are far too 'athletic' when it comes to striking.

I will try to get a picture of the hook my friend has, it's really useful.

Have you come across any of the 'dwarf' gabs? A few of my friends have adult Gaboons that are 6-7 years old and are only 3 foot.

First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

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I agree with everything you've said, but I don't agree with them not being good for a first time hot keeper.

Many people keep atrox as a first hot, and although they aren't built as heavily, they generally are far more nutty and tricker to hook.

What makes a gaboon bad for a first hot? If you cannot bring yourself to not underestimate these snakes, do you deserve to keep any hots at all? You should always over estimate regardless of whether the snake shows defensive signals or not.

My two gabs were my first snakes, forget about venomous snakes. I didn't keep non venomous at all. But I had experience dealing with large gabs, puff adders etc.

A friend of mine has the perfect hook for large Bitis. It is almost shovel like, the hook is about 7 inches wide, and is perfect to take big Gaboons out on and they sit perfectly on it.

Many people do tail Gaboons, however I'm with you. I personally would not do it at all, they are far too 'athletic' when it comes to striking.

I will try to get a picture of the hook my friend has, it's really useful.

Have you come across any of the 'dwarf' gabs? A few of my friends have adult Gaboons that are 6-7 years old and are only 3 foot.

First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

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I agree with everything you've said, but I don't agree with them not being good for a first time hot keeper.

Many people keep atrox as a first hot, and although they aren't built as heavily, they generally are far more nutty and tricker to hook.

What makes a gaboon bad for a first hot? If you cannot bring yourself to not underestimate these snakes, do you deserve to keep any hots at all? You should always over estimate regardless of whether the snake shows defensive signals or not.

My two gabs were my first snakes, forget about venomous snakes. I didn't keep non venomous at all. But I had experience dealing with large gabs, puff adders etc.

A friend of mine has the perfect hook for large Bitis. It is almost shovel like, the hook is about 7 inches wide, and is perfect to take big Gaboons out on and they sit perfectly on it.

Many people do tail Gaboons, however I'm with you. I personally would not do it at all, they are far too 'athletic' when it comes to striking.

I will try to get a picture of the hook my friend has, it's really useful.

Have you come across any of the 'dwarf' gabs? A few of my friends have adult Gaboons that are 6-7 years old and are only 3 foot.

First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

[3skulls]

For those of you that keep venomous snakes. What happens if you get bit? Do local hospitals stock anti venom? Have you checked with them before you acquire the animal?

Seems like that would be a steep hospital bill.

Not trying to jinx anyone, always wondered what would happen.

[Crotalids]

First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

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First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

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First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

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First up I assume that you are talking about crotalus atorx because I certainly hope that novice keepers are not trying to tackle bothrops as a first hot. And although I would agree that as a whole crotalus do not sit well on hooks, although I do currently have some vegrandis that sit very well. :cens0r:A mistake resulting in a bite from a C. Atorx would most likely be far less devestating than from a B. GABONICA or B. rhinoceros in addition most crotalus and certainly atrox make there intentions very well known to any one and are very easy IMO to read even for the most green of keepers so they are far less likely to take you by surprise. :cens0r: The hook you describe does sound like it would be at the very least much easier on the animal but my major problem with hooking large Bitis is just the shear weight of the animal. 30lbs at the end of a 4' hook is a lot of weight even if they are behaving them selves. As far as "dwarf" gabs go. B. GABONICA is by far the smaller of the 2 species and males may very well never exceed 3'. But I did have one female grow to just over 4' even though she was always feed on a very light diet. Once mature she was only feed very small rabbits every 3 or 4 months.:cens0r:

Of course, rattlers on the whole make it clear where you stand.

But any venomous keeper, or prospective venomous keeper should not underestimate any snake whether or not they make their intentions clear or not.

I treat my Gaboons with exactly the same respect I would treat a Pygmy rattler or albolabris. Every time I have interaction with them I treat them as if they were going to explode and come at me. Every venomous keeper must have this mentality, beginner or experienced.

The weight granted can be an issue, but it is manageable with the hook I suggested.

I hooked an adult Bitis gabonica with this hook on the first day I started to handle venomous snakes, and it was a 'walk in the park'.

With regards to size, two of my friends have Bitis rhinoceros females that have maxed out at 3 ft and a guy in Europe has one that is maxed out at 2 foot.

[Crotalids]

For those of you that keep venomous snakes. What happens if you get bit? Do local hospitals stock anti venom? Have you checked with them before you acquire the animal?

Seems like that would be a steep hospital bill.

Not trying to jinx anyone, always wondered what would happen.

In the UK we have one of the best antivenom producing facilities in the world.

We aren't allowed to stock our own anti venom. The bill is footed by the tax payer as our healthcare is free.

We have nearly all anti venoms available to us if a bite was to occur. And would be flown or driven to the hospital where you are admitted.

[3skulls]

I live a couple of hours away from The Reptile Zoo in Kentucky. I know he does a ton of milking there. I wonder how many lives he has saved with his work?
We can't have venomous in the city limits.

Just wondered how that worked.

My hats off to the ones who work with them. Some amazing animals for sure.

[jason_ladouceur]

Of course, rattlers on the whole make it clear where you stand.

But any venomous keeper, or prospective venomous keeper should not underestimate any snake whether or not they make their intentions clear or not.

I treat my Gaboons with exactly the same respect I would treat a Pygmy rattler or albolabris. Every time I have interaction with them I treat them as if they were going to explode and come at me. Every venomous keeper must have this mentality, beginner or experienced.

The weight granted can be an issue, but it is manageable with the hook I suggested.

I hooked an adult Bitis gabonica with this hook on the first day I started to handle venomous snakes, and it was a 'walk in the park'.

With regards to size, two of my friends have Bitis rhinoceros females that have maxed out at 3 ft and a guy in Europe has one that is maxed out at 2 foot.

Wow. Sorry about the multiple posts. I really don't know what happened there lol. 3' adult westerns is something I have never seen or even heard of until now. Very interesting. The large size of westerns is a big part of why I have always chosen to work with eastern's. I %100 agree with you, if you put yourself in the strike range of any hot you should assume that they are going to bite regardless of what species your dealing with. This is IMO the only responsible way to deal with hots for any keeper regardless of their experience level.

[Neon Viper]

Id still recomend for the begginer something smaller and more manegable than a Gab for a first hot. Mine was a Copperhead nice and small and easy to work with it broke me into hots just nicely. Everyone to there own though this is just how i see it whatever you do start off with stay safe.

[Crotalids]

Wow. Sorry about the multiple posts. I really don't know what happened there lol. 3' adult westerns is something I have never seen or even heard of until now. Very interesting. The large size of westerns is a big part of why I have always chosen to work with eastern's. I %100 agree with you, if you put yourself in the strike range of any hot you should assume that they are going to bite regardless of what species your dealing with. This is IMO the only responsible way to deal with hots for any keeper regardless of their experience level.

Here you go Randy has one that's only 2ft and it was born in 1999. Peter Pastor also has a 6 year old pair that are only 80cm.

[3skulls]

This thread is lacking pics.