Is this a Pastel?

[Dember]

I got this ball python under the impression that it was definitely a Pastel, but I've never seen any that have a pattern so similar to a Normal's.

I was talking to a breeder I know and he said that it doesn't look like a Pastel at all to him, but he advised me to post here and get some other opinions.

I planned to eventually breed her and hopefully produce some fireflies, maybe super pastels or bumblebees (any advice on which would be best?), but now I'm not even sure if she'd be capable of it.
Is there any way to know for sure?

Older photos:


With my Normal (het pied) Male for comparison:


Before shed:


After shed (taken last night):


Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks so much!

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

That is no where near a pastel. Sorry to say it but that's about as normal as they come. Where did you get it that they had you thinking it was definitely a pastel? I've seen plenty on here that are very light blushed out normals with flames that might be able to be passed off as pastels to new people who may not know better, but your snake there is not one of them. It really is a very normal looking normal.

[Dember]

That's pretty disappointing to hear, I traded a 1500g poss het pied female for her, but the person I traded wasn't the breeder of this snake. This is only my third snake, including the 1500g one I traded. Can you explain exactly what confirms that this one is indeed a Normal? She's a lot brighter and more yellow than any other Normal I've seen, but I'm obviously far from an expert.

[ludedor24]

There are "high golds" but it still a normal. Shes got a nice pattern and looks healthy though

[decensored]

yeah she's a normal, not a pastel. No signs of pastel at all, couldn't even stretch to say there is a possibility. Sorry mate.

However she is a very awesome looking normal. Very light and clean pattern, exactly what I would look for in a normal to bred to any light codom morph. Would be perfect for breeding to a light colored codom, lesser, butter, pastel, mojo. Or any pattern morph; spider, pinstripe, etc.

That is disappointing, how long ago did you trade? As far as I'm concerned you've been had. I would start kicking my feet with that breeder personally. The trade was made under false pretenses. The BOI is around for this kind of BS. Any breeder knows the difference between a normal and pastel. They should be held responsible, and deal with the consequences of bad business. Even if it just affects their credibility.

Where did you get her?

[Dember]

I googled "high gold ball python" and could have very nearly mistaken most the results for this snake. Do those usually have the dots under the eye like her, also? I've never seen them on any other normals.
Also, are they worth the same value as any other normal?

I traded a few months ago. I was originally going to trade for this pastel:

But the breeder backed out at the last minute.

The guy I got this "pastel" from didn't breed this snake, but he is a breeder (hence wanting the 1500g ball). Heck, I'm not even sure if it's female or not, because I've never successfully popped or probed a snake and I don't really feel comfortable trying.
I'm not sure where he got this one. His name is Aaron, near Sacramento.

Unfortunately I've already gotten pretty attached to her as a pet, put effort into taming her down and whatnot, and the 1500g had a rather unpleasant temper (but only with me, for some reason) so I wouldn't want that one back anyway, though in terms of breeding, I'm pretty much sure I would have been better off trying to prove out the other as het pied now, I even had an offer of another breeder I know who was going to let me breed that one with one of his male piebalds.

I have another friend who's just getting into breeding and he was really excited about potentially breeding her with his male fire for some firefly babies.

Do you think her offspring would be anything special, perhaps if bred to a pastel, spider or a fire, at least?
Or is this just a "the incubator alone would be worth more than the entire clutch" deal?..

[decensored]

I googled "high gold ball python" and could have very nearly mistaken most the results for this snake. Do those usually have the dots under the eye like her, also? I've never seen them on any other normals.
Also, are they worth the same value as any other normal?

I traded a few months ago. I was originally going to trade for this pastel:

But the breeder backed out at the last minute.

The guy I got this "pastel" from didn't breed this snake, but he is a breeder (hence wanting the 1500g ball). Heck, I'm not even sure if it's female or not, because I've never successfully popped or probed a snake and I don't really feel comfortable trying.
I'm not sure where he got this one. His name is Aaron, near Sacramento.

Unfortunately I've already gotten pretty attached to her as a pet, put effort into taming her down and whatnot, and the 1500g had a rather unpleasant temper (but only with me, for some reason) so I wouldn't want that one back anyway, though in terms of breeding, I'm pretty much sure I would have been better off trying to prove out the other as het pied now, I even had an offer of another breeder I know who was going to let me breed that one with one of his male piebalds.

I have another friend who's just getting into breeding and he was really excited about potentially breeding her with his male fire for some firefly babies.

Do you think her offspring would be anything special, perhaps if bred to a pastel, spider or a fire, at least?
Or is this just a "the incubator alone would be worth more than the entire clutch" deal?..

Trade value would be roughly the same. Obviously higher quality animals earn higher price points but essentially you can expect the same for a light normal than you would for a dark normal. Example:

Let's say the market value of a pastel is $100.00. If I produce two pastels this year, one very high quality and one very low quality. I would expect the high quality pastel to sell for $100. I wouldn't expect to get the same money for the low quality pastel, it might sell for 50-75 dollars. The same is not true for normals. A normal is worth about $50 market value now. You'll have an easier time selling a light, clean normal than you would a dark and dirty one, but your not going to get any more for it.

It really depends on what you breed to that normal. If you breed another normal to it and have one clutch this year, than most likely you will not recoup your cost for the incubator. However if you breed, lets say.. a bumblebee to it and get a 4 egg clutch your potentially looking at, 1 bumblebee ($300), 1 spider ($100-125), 1 pastel ($100), and a normal ($50) = $550-$575. The quality of the bumblebee will have an impact on the quality of the offspring. If you have really nice looking babies you can usually expect to pull out market value and the clutch pays off the incubator. This is all hypothetical of course.

The nice looking normal wouldn't count as something special in anything it produces, but higher quality animals generally make higher quality animals. And in a market as saturated as this one, quality is everything.

[ludedor24]

Also, are they worth the same value as any other normal?


Do you think her offspring would be anything special, perhaps if bred to a pastel, spider or a fire, at least?
Or is this just a "the incubator alone would be worth more than the entire clutch" deal?..

Pretty much the same price as any normal. I picked up a high gold female at a reptile show last year , they had quite a few $20ea.
Sorry to say but I dont think you would see much more positive outcome as if you were to breed your morphs to any other normal. Not to say it wont produce some great looking offsping though. All depends what your pairing it with.

[PitOnTheProwl]

No blushing at all
You already know she is not a pastel, are you SURE that she is a she?

Find yourself a really nice pastel male and make your own girls with her if she is sexed right

[Dember]

Unfortunately no, I'm not; I'm going off of the word of the same person who claimed she was a pastel, so that's iffy at best.
I've tried popping a few times myself, but I don't feel anywhere near comfortable putting enough pressure to do it successfully. I know how badly you can hurt them if you do it wrong, so I think I'll leave it to the professionals.

I'd like to ask my friend to sex her; he's been breeding snakes for a few years now and seems to really know what he's doing, but I can't get in contact with him lately. Hopefully just hectic holidays are to blame.

If she is definitely female at least, what do you think of this male?
Definitely a pastel? And would $80 be a good price for him?


Thanks for all of the input, everyone.