OK I keep getting flack for keeping my snakes in a rack system

[Crotalids]

And that, is exactly what is wrong with a lot of people. Not caring if they offend, or hurt people. I will bow out now, as I see you are in fact, a me person. Kudos to you for having thick skin, I applaud that and it is a fine trait. Sadly, that trait sometimes goes hand in hand with callousness and general rude attitudes, and that is not, in my opinion, a fine trait at all. (Not saying you are this way, as I don't know you personally, just what I have seen via forum)

I will always care if my words hurt people, and I will always disagree that "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me". After 4 years of verbal abuse from my ex-husband, being told no one would ever want me, that I was lucky to have him, and that I was trash, I know words CAN and DO hurt. I grew some thick skin after I finally left him, but I try to always take care when talking in general because I am aware not everyone has thick skin. I feel very strongly about this subject, and I apologize for those looking for a caging debate. I've helped steer this entirely off topic, and to the OP, I hope you got a decent answer out of all of this

But alas, there is a time when it is best to bow out. Debating one another about something we both aren't going to budge on, is redundant and not very fascinating for the readers. I enjoyed the discussion though, and it was interesting to see the different opinions on the natural vs rack set up.

Edit: Actually, you are probably not a "Me" person entirely. As you stated, you talked someone through their offensive remarks. That's great, honestly. So many could not do that. I applaud you for your ability to keep a cool head when faced with such blatant disregard for other people.

I'm not a 'me' person at all, it's hard to judge someone's intentions over the Internet. But I do say what I feel, I don't see the point in lying to people and beating around the bush. But that's a whole different topic

[arialmt]

To FIREBLADE,
Shed your peer based insecurities and stand confident that you are doing the right thing for your animals and less importantly, yourself.

I personally like the "nature" housing (as if any of us [average Americans] know how the African Savannah looks) but I only want a couple of animals total, ever. If I were to want a large collection, I would keep in a tub rack.

[Crotalids]

To the OP ignore your friend and keep your animal the way you want to keep them if their needs are met than you are doing a great job with your animals and don't anyone tell you otherwise.

To Crotalids how long have you been working with Ball Pythons again? and who are you to judge one's passion based on the way they keep their animals?

I was gonna write a lengthy post and then I changed my mind, after reading your answers it is clear to me that you have a very LIMITED experience when it comes to BP (yes this thread is about Ball Pythons not Gaboon or other hots) and therefore I won't waste my time except to say that you are having a great start on this forum judging other based on YOUR opinion and lack of experience.

Now my take on BP housing, to me as long as the animal's need are met and the animal healthy, feeding and stress free that's all that matter.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're acting as if Royals are a hard species to keep. Anyone with half a brain cell can keep them, hence why they're often touted as a 'starter' snake.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're acting as if Royals are a hard species to keep. Anyone with half a brain cell can keep them, hence why they're often touted as a 'starter' snake.

I NEVER said they were hard to keep I am sure that even you could keep one as long as you meet your criteria in bold, I just pointed out how RIDICULOUS you sounded trying to tell people who have thriving animals how they should keep their animals and why.

And why should they keep them like that again? Because of your experienced on the subject matter and the fact that you know better?

Can you prove to me that they would thrive better in a natural environment? (which btw good luck with re-creating a thermite mount in your enclosure ).

The fact is YOU never kept any BP or other snake in tubs and yet you are positive that people doing so are just wrong so again who are you to tell people their way is the wrong way? (Not that I care btw)

I am not the judgmental one here rubbing people the wrong way talking about something I have no experience with (You have no experience with BP and no experience keeping BP in tubs) and being condescending to them because they do not do what you deem acceptable.

I will say it again I do not care how one's keeps his animal so long their need are met.

[RoseyReps]

Hence my "Edit" line Crotalids, I retracted my first assumption, I left it in text because I would not want one to assume I was trying to hide my first assumption.

And I will jump in here, not on the off topic debate I was flaring, but on what you stated to Deborah.

Just because a species is generally an easy keeper, doesn't mean that they don't have specific requirements and notable tendencies. I believe, and I'm not Deborah, so this is just what I took from it, that she was trying to say you are basing your opinion on what is best for a Ball Python based on zero experience. Telling people what or how to keep an animal, that you have no experience with personally, is generally frowned upon.

I would also add, that just because they are a starter snake, doesn't mean they don't require knowledge. Again, look at the hundreds of thousands of ball pythons that end up given away, or at shelters, or rescued, or dead, because the person didn't have the knowledge required to care for them properly. Or if they did, they didn't care enough to do so, which is an entirely different beast on it's own.

Any animal you take responsibility for requires knowledge. Even a little goldfish, hamster, dog, cat etc.

Before I acquired my first ball python, I had no idea that an UTH required a thermostat, that BPs required 50-60% humidity, that 2 hides are best, or that they are basically really pretty pet rocks in reference to activity levels. I learned these things before I got my first bp because I wanted to make sure I was taking care of my animal properly. But it required me learning, if I hadn't gone looking for the information, my bp would be suffering now because of it. So yes, it requires a bit more than half a brain cell. Not hots by any means, but a knowledge base none the less.

Edit: Deborah beat me in reply swiftness. Oh well

[TessadasExotics]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're acting as if Royals are a hard species to keep. Anyone with half a brain cell can keep them, hence why they're often touted as a 'starter' snake.

Anyone with half a brain cell can keep hots, even Gabbies or Rhino's. Which, by the way, are not "burrowers". They are slow and sluggish and like to hide in leaves or brush. They are ambush hunters. Hence the pretty colors and patterns which help them blend into the leaves on the ground.

[Crotalids]

I NEVER said they were hard to keep I am sure that even you could keep one as long as you meet your criteria in bold, I just pointed out how RIDICULOUS you sounded trying to tell people who have thriving animals how they should keep their animals and why.

And why should they keep them like that again? Because of your experienced on the subject matter and the fact that you know better?

Can you prove to me that they would thrive better in a natural environment? (which btw good luck with re-creating a thermite mount in your enclosure ).

The fact is YOU never kept any BP or other snake in tubs and yet you are positive that people doing so are just wrong so again who are you to tell people their way is the wrong way? (Not that I care btw)

I am not the judgmental one here rubbing people the wrong way talking about something I have no experience with (You have no experience with BP and no experience keeping BP in tubs) and being condescending to them because they do not do what you deem acceptable.

I will say it again I do not care how one's keeps his animal so long their need are met.

Have you even read the thread? I never said there is anything wrong with tubs. My Gaboon vipers are in tubs right now...

Just because i haven't kept them myself doesn't mean i don't know anything about them. My friends keep and breed them, i know more than my fair share thanks. It's all opinion at the end of the day, i think my way is right and the others wrong. Simple as, it's not a big deal.

Anyone with half a brain cell can keep hots, even Gabbies or Rhino's. Which, by the way, are not "burrowers". They are slow and sluggish and like to hide in leaves or brush. They are ambush hunters. Hence the pretty colors and patterns which help them blend into the leaves on the ground.

I used 'burrowers' loosely, as they like to bury themselves in the substrate and just leave their heads exposed.

I'm not denying that anyone with half a brain cell can keep hots. But you give a nasicornis or rhinoceros/gabonica to someone inexperienced it's quite likely it will end up dying, give royal to someone inexperienced and 99% of the time it will be fine. You obviously don't know anything about Bitis as a genus by your statement "They are slow and sluggish".

[DooLittle]

Here, here's a shovel...keep on digging

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

LOOK! I brought enough for everyone! Sit back and enjoy the show!

[TessadasExotics]

I used 'burrowers' loosely, as they like to bury themselves in the substrate and just leave their heads exposed.

I'm not denying that anyone with half a brain cell can keep hots. But you give a nasicornis or rhinoceros/gabonica to someone inexperienced it's quite likely it will end up dying, give royal to someone inexperienced and 99% of the time it will be fine. You obviously don't know anything about Bitis as a genus by your statement "They are slow and sluggish".

Actually I happen to know quite a bit about Bitis nasicornis, Rhinoceros vipers, and used to raise them. Western Rhino's to be more specific. They are almost identical to Gabbies (Bitis Gabonica) hence the same group name.
They are fat, slow and lazy vipers. They are known to lay in wait for pray to come walking by for days. Now they do have a lightning fast strike, don't get me wrong. They are still rather slow and sluggish