Help with milk snake tank setup!

[Crash_Love]

Hey all, I am a brand new milk snake owner and I have some general questions about the care of them and adequate tank set ups. So, to start off, let me get everyone up to speed on what I am currently doing with my snakes.

First off, I have two individual types of milk snake. One is a baby Nelson's and the other is a baby Pueblan. I currently have them housed in their own individual 10 gallon aquariums with reptile carpet on the bottom and about 1 1/2" aspen substrate on top of the carpet. I have 10-20 gallon ZooMed under tank heaters stuck to the bottom of one side of each tank, and they are also hooked up to simple Home Depot light dimmers so I can control the heat output. Furthermore, I have digital thermometers in each tank with the probes for them about 1" under the aspen substrate on the hot side of the tank, underneath the hide that is also on the hot side. (I have a hide on both the hot and cold side of the tanks, as well as a water dish on the cool side). I am going to buy further climbing materials for them next week, too so that they feel more secure and happy in their environments. The tops of both tanks are metal mesh with tank clamps around the sides to prevent escaping.

So, here are my questions....
1) The thermometer probes that I have placed 1" under the substrate on the hot sides of the tanks are reading around 97 degrees Fahrenheit (that is with me adjusting a dimmer switch to act as a rhetostat so the UTH's cannot reach their maximum temps). I'm assuming that since I have the probes 1" UNDERNEATH the substrate, this is not the temperature my snakes are receiving when they sit ON TOP of the substrate (I am also going to add that I have not witnessed them burrowing as of yet). I am afraid that if I set my dimmer lower so that the probes read 85 degrees or so, the TOP of the substrate will then not have enough heat if the snake decides to only bask on top rather than burrowing. Should I invest in an overhead heat light in addition to my UTH or is my set up okay right now? Also, should I move the probes to just be on top of the substrate, or should I keep them buried?
2) should I have more than 1 1/2" of aspen substrate in the tanks?




So overall, I just want to know how to perfect my heating system. I am just afraid that since I have a wire mesh tank lid that the UTH's are not providing a vertical as well as horizontal thermal gradient. I feel as if the only heat my tanks are getting is on the floor and not in the air as well. So....


3) if I DO need to add on overhead heat source, what type of bulb and what wattage should I get for a 10 gallon tank? (Keep in mind I am going to keep my UTH's hooked up as well).




Other than these questions, any other important care information on milk snakes is much appreciated.




Thanks so much everyone! (and sorry this post was so long!)

[Pyrate81]

Gratz on the new additions, hope to see some pics soon. ;-) nudge nudge

1. Thermometer probes you want as close the pad as possible. Most people stick them between the heat pad and glass outside the tank. Do not adhere them to the inside of the tank, if the adhesive gets on the snake, it can cause harm(mostly advised for tape inside the tank/cage). 97* sounds very high, you want the hotspot in the 88-90* range. If 97* is the temp under the substrate at the glass, lowering the temp is highly recommended. There is a risk for overheating or harming the snake. Keep the probe buried. For a 10 gal tank/terraium if you get anything for overhead heating/lighting make sure it is low wattage(40w or less) or it is on a thermostat or have it far enough above the enclosure where it just warms it slightly. With a small amount of space, a heat lamp will overheat the enclosure and you'll bake your snake. (Baked snake? wonder if that would be good with potatoes and gravy, bad joke? hehe.) For my Ball I use a 40w infrared to help add some ambient heat on the hot side in a 40br critter cage though. Infrared is fine for a ball though cause they're nocturnal and don't really need hardcore lighting during the day, just the cycle IMO.

2. Milksnakes like to burrow. 1 1/2 inches of bedding should be fine for a baby. My milk spends most of his days under his water bowl. Although lately, he likes being out and about or in his hot side hide. :-)

3. I do not see a care sheet for milksnakes on this site, but for heating/temperature and the like you can use the California kingsnake care sheet as a reference. I have a book that says the same temps, although it's from 1992.

I use overhead lighting: 50w zoomed basking light which I adjust the distance from the top of the cage to help adjust the temp of the basking spot which usually adjusts the ambient by a degree or two as well.

[Crash_Love]

Gratz on the new additions, hope to see some pics soon. ;-) nudge nudge

1. Thermometer probes you want as close the pad as possible. Most people stick them between the heat pad and glass outside the tank. Do not adhere them to the inside of the tank, if the adhesive gets on the snake, it can cause harm(mostly advised for tape inside the tank/cage). 97* sounds very high, you want the hotspot in the 88-90* range. If 97* is the temp under the substrate at the glass, lowering the temp is highly recommended. There is a risk for overheating or harming the snake. Keep the probe buried. For a 10 gal tank/terraium if you get anything for overhead heating/lighting make sure it is low wattage(40w or less) or it is on a thermostat or have it far enough above the enclosure where it just warms it slightly. With a small amount of space, a heat lamp will overheat the enclosure and you'll bake your snake. (Baked snake? wonder if that would be good with potatoes and gravy, bad joke? hehe.) For my Ball I use a 40w infrared to help add some ambient heat on the hot side in a 40br critter cage though. Infrared is fine for a ball though cause they're nocturnal and don't really need hardcore lighting during the day, just the cycle IMO.

2. Milksnakes like to burrow. 1 1/2 inches of bedding should be fine for a baby. My milk spends most of his days under his water bowl. Although lately, he likes being out and about or in his hot side hide. :-)

3. I do not see a care sheet for milksnakes on this site, but for heating/temperature and the like you can use the California kingsnake care sheet as a reference. I have a book that says the same temps, although it's from 1992.

I use overhead lighting: 50w zoomed basking light which I adjust the distance from the top of the cage to help adjust the temp of the basking spot which usually adjusts the ambient by a degree or two as well.

Thanks Pyrate! Haha, baked snake does not sound very appetizing to me, but then again I have heard that rattlesnake isn't half bad to eat . One more question, I got the Pueblan to eat a pinky after cutting it open a little and stabbing its head to expose brain tissue, but the Nelson's will not eat because it is in the middle of a shed. Is there anything I can do to help it shed? I heard to mist the tank every few days to keep the humidity up and I also heard to soak the snake in water for a bit? Also, what are the different ways to "scent" a pinky?

[Pyrate81]

All prey items are scented with their own smell whether they are frozen or fresh. Cutting open a pinky or fuzzy(called "braining") is usually only used after several failed feeding attempts for newborns that have not taken food at all for a specified amount of time after hatching. So you don't have to worry about doing it any longer.

Leave the snake shed in peace, spray the tank to maintain humidity for shedding as needed(60-70% I believe). Soaking and handling the snake will only stress it out. You want to keep stress levels as low as possible, especially for a younger snake learning the ways of being a snake.

[reptileexperts]

Grats on the new additions, as has been said, 97 is WAY hott even for above the carpet. . . . you need to not worry about the surface temperature of the substrate as you do about the surface temperature of the most accessible spot by the snake. Because these snakes are secretive by nature, they love to stay hidden, and this does include going under their substrate and staying right on top of a heat source (though not always). I would "strive" for 90 degrees ontop of the carpet, no hotter. And mount your temperature probe between the heatpad and the glass if you can, then use a seperate thermometer to read the carpet temperature so you have an idea of how it all relates.

1 1/2" is fine, even a little on the thick side for a young snake. Keep in mind that heat has to escape through the substrate. You have carpet on the bottom and that's already going to trap a lot of the heat trying to get out and cause heat to build up. Adding all the substrate on top of this could cause your heating pad to heat up quite hot quite fast. I'm assuming you used the little black feet that came with the pad? You need to make sure that your tanks are elevated slightly off the floor of whatever they are sitting on. This gives air the chance to pass under the heating pad keeping it running more efficiently, and without worry of it shorting out. This also takes the tanks weight off of the power cord that runs from the heater. In my milk snake tubs, the babies are kept on about 1/2" deep of aspen chips. And their ground temperature of the tub is no hotter than 88 degrees... tubs work a little bit different though than glass tanks. . . theory is the same though for temperature control.

Don't worry too much over all this though. As long as you dont overheat your milk snake, they are VERY forgiving snakes. Their temperatures do not have to be spot on, they won't up and die because it was only 84 in the cage. Just don't let them get too hot, anything near 100 is too hot for Milk snakes! Humidity can be moderate around 30% most of the time. Mist once a day when they are in shed to help them out. Stop misting once the shed has come off however.

Feeding tricks: For a baby milk snake its all about privacy and confidence for it to feed. The first feedings in a new home can be tricky if shipping was involved, or even just a long car ride. For the first few times, I always reccommend my customers to use a small brown paper bag like you'd get for lunch. Put the snake inside the bag with a Pinky Mouse (Live / Fresh killed / Frozen/thawed, whatever!) and close the top with two paperclips (one on each side). Place the bag back in the snakes tank on the warm side but not directly over or under a heat source. Allow the snake to stay in the bag with the food for 30 minutes to 2 hours. If it's a live pinky you should hear it make some noise when the deed has been started. If it's frozen thawed, just check on it after 30 and if it's still in there, give it the full 2 hours. 99% of the time, this WILL work. . .. Unless the snake was a bad feeder from the start, this will cure its feeding issues without braining, scenting, or anything of the sorts.

Feel free to message me any questions you may have!

[Crash_Love]

Thanks so much guys! I turned the uth's on the tanks down to roughly 90* and misted the tank of the shedding snake.

Quick bit of info about my snakes.... The nelson is the one that is shedding and he is also the very docile one. My pueblan tends to be incredibly skittish and WILL not stop moving while being held, BUT he was an amazing eater! As paranoid as he seems to be, he took a brained pinky literally 2 minutes after my wiggling it around his face in the feeding container. I had read that milks are usually skittish by nature, but will regular handling calm him down? Or is that just going to be his personality?

[reptileexperts]

People tend to assume that milk snakes will always be skittish. This is true to a point that yeah they are a smaller snake that likes to move around a lot more than a ball python. But they are still good tempered snakes. My adult Pueblans have no issues being handled frequently, and get handled by a lot of people other than myself without me worrying about them getting out of hand too quick. I know when they are in the mood to be handled or not, it just takes getting to know them.

When they are small they are just scared, and they will want to take "flight" - we deem these as Flighty snakes. Do not let that worry you though, they calm down and become more confident with age, and thus less flighty.

Nelson's are generally really nice. My female Nelson's was a lot less flighty than any of my pueblans to date, but when I adopted her out, the new owner, a friend of mine, did not handle her routinely and she quickly became flighty and ill tempered. So just keep handling them as you can and they will become placid and docile in return.

Cheers

[Crash_Love]

Okay, sounds good. And how long does it usually take for juvenile snakes to shed? My snake that is shedding won't eat at all and I'm just wondering if I should wait until he is completely done shedding before I try feeding again? I have not tried the paper bag trick yet, but I definitely will if he doesn't eat soon. He's going on almost 2 weeks since his last pinky. Is this okay? How long can they go without eating anyway?

(sorry about all of the questions :p I just want to be sure that I am as educated as possible about them)

[reptileexperts]

I have a Pueblan that I hatched this year that has now passed the 2 month mark without feeding, but has grown and shed twice since then. They can be troopers! The entire process of shedding does not take that long, usually no more than 7 days, maybe 3-4 days after you notice the blue tint over the eyes and dull coloration. My young would mostly eat during shed if i offered, but I usually just wait till they finish and offer food the next day. Let him do his thing and finish the shed. You'll be A O K

[Crash_Love]

Okay thanks so much for all the info!