Proof on the Spider gene. OWAL take a look

[meowmeowkazoo]

Just to show some numbers on this that I have produced myself. I have bred Spider to Spider 25 times in total, the last time was 4 years ago. Out of all of them I had 1 slug and 3 eggs go bad during incubation. I did use ultra sound and every number is the exact same for follicle count vs eggs/slugs. I was very lucky and hatched 5 males the first year and they were breeding normal females the next year and were not homo spiders. The females that were raised up that were spider and bred to normal males produced the standard outcome. This year is the last year I will be doing these breedings and currently have 91 eggs incubating from those pairings. So we will see. But so far nothing at all has shown any form of lethality or a super form at all. So with the amount of breedings done on this is a decent amount for a base case study and more can be done to add to it. As a side note there were no multi gene animals used through the entire process it was only spider to spider and then offspring to normals.

Posted a few months ago. He says he has bred spider to spider 25 times, and the last time was four years ago. Yet in 2009 (3 years ago) he stated that his first morphs were a yellowbelly and then a pastel male. No mention of spiders. And he says that this year he has 91 eggs incubating, which is a bit far off from the numbers he originally posted in this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

And now I'm done, time for an Internet break, lol. I sincerely hope that my brain is just broken today because these quotes seem to be adding up to something rather strange. I dismissed this thread (from 2009) at first, though it stuck in the back of my mind as odd.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?91377-Spider-question

This quote in particular is troubling:

Ok results are in and I had 1326 clutches that were from female spiders and the total eggs from female spiders were.................................. 7956 that is an average of 6 eggs to a clutch...

I had a lot more males so to make it more fair I took a chart and wrote down all th females and how many eggs laid..... then took and matched things up... So say this chutch had 5 eggs in it froma female spider i found a clutch that had 5 eggs from a male spider.... I did not look at the outcome of each clutch until I had the exact numbers of eggs and clutches done and then I took and added up spiders produced the males and spiders produced by the females....

So who is ready for the results?????????


From male spiders bred to normal females the total number of spiders produced in 1326 clutches of eggs with a total count of 7956 eggs was 3291 spiders................41.36%

From a male normal bred to a female spider the total number of spiders produced in 1326 clutches of eggs with a total count of 7956 eggs was 5264 spiders....................66.16%

So I have concluded that from these results and the data I recieved the spider gene is more dominant in females and is more likely to be passed to offspring than it is from a male...

Thank you all for your help. Now to find out if this is actually true or just the clutches I had for reference so I am going to start a massive spider project.

He says that his male spiders to normal females produced the EXACT SAME amount of clutches with the EXACT SAME amount of eggs as his female spiders to normal males. And he claims to be working with thousands of animals.

Now I really am done, maybe someone else will read through this all and tell me I'm paranoid/dumb or that I've been spending too much time on the BOI. I would like to know what others think.

[billye1982]

I might be wrong, but I would think if there were 30+ pairings of spider x spider, even if there is no super spider, the odds would work out to where all the eggs from one clutch would be all spider.

[eatgoodfood]

That kind of does it for me right there. Forget that the numbers are the same, I find it very un-likely that someone has that many animals, time, money to produce 16000 eggs from spider to spider pairings........ But whats the point, not like their getting anything out of jerking us around except maybe a laugh.....

ok so i started reading through that thread and it looks like the op did not do the breeding but compiled the data from other breeders..

[eatgoodfood]

I had to re-read that post with the exact same numbers, so its not his breeding, its compiled data, and he took the data and matched it so there were the same number of breedings- and clutch size for both pairings, so thats not fishy at all. I really wish the OP would come on and give us his information so we can put this to rest.

[gsarchie]

TROLL!!! No way this stuff is legit. I have never known someone to breed spider to spider in all my times on internet forums and to think that he got that much info from that many clutches of spiderXspider and subsequent pairing of offspring is just too much for me to believe. In my opinion the OPs silence is pretty damning in this case.

[Emilio]

OP was on today and decided to ignore this thread quite telling.

[RandyRemington]

Darn.

BTW, TSK is doing a spider X spider project. Nowhere near the numbers claimed in this thread, but when they do give data you can bet it will be accurate and reliable.

[paulh]

Glad to hear that.

[Riv]

Wow.. Really pretty dissapointed with the way this went. I too assumed it must have been a professional breeder who was using his own facility and rescources to breed on such a large scale, but the numbers timelines and data dont add up. not to mention even if he rid breed on that level, taking a year or two to breed spiders and their offspring would financially cripple him and his business. He would not only be taking the value of spiders and dropping it by flooding the market with them(ruining his own sales) but they arent exactly high doller to begin with, and would never even make his money back in a timely fashion assuming he purchased the first generation as adults. Its finicially a terrible idea and not at all worth it to work with those numbers. Im glad someone blew the whistle and stopped people who generally take others at their word(like me) from spreading false results. I want to actually know whats going on with the spider morph though = ( Youd think if he was going to lie about results he would have put more work into it though. A trained chimp can look at old posts.

-Riveran

[billye1982]

I think we can officialy say "myth busted" . I wouldnt mind seeing this on a smaller scale, say 1 male and 4-5 breeder spider females. That would not cripple a person and I think it could be proven on even that small of a scale. 5 females laying 5 eggs each, 25 total, 12 spiders, 6 males and 6 females. In a year and a half the 6 males could be bred to 6 normals, if any of them throw an all spider clutch it could be attempted again with multiple females the next year. So it would be a 3 year case study minimum, but I think that would be a big enough sample.