Proof on the Spider gene. OWAL take a look

[OhhWatALoser]

I thought of that too, but then, why couldn't both snakes pass on the extra chromosome? (I figured out why my own idea wouldn't work). So, it still wouldn't cause this.

not enough material to make it?

I just read something that said people with the extra chromosome sometimes don't pass it fully due to not having enough material... i donno? lol

[h00blah]

This is one of the most impressive efforts I've ever run across, to try and prove/disprove some of the genetic theories we play with. I really think this experiment should be properly documented and written up. Not that I think it qualifies as some kind of peer-reviewable scientific experiment (I suppose it might, I have no idea how you actually went about it) but even an informal, but well-written document, with all the relevant data, and all the questions answered in one place, could be invaluable to current and future ball python enthusiasts.

If you'd like help putting something like that together, I'd be happy to partner up with you and work on it. Shoot me a PM, if interested.

Yes! This kind of research should be a sticky . Whatever document you guys come up with, I'm excited to read it.

[reptileexperts]

Spider as being inherited as an extra chromosomal disorder would actually make perfect since, and could easily explain the presence of the neurological issues given better as well (spider wobble). The reason that you couldn't transfer two copies of the chromosome is perhaps it only exists in a single chromotid state, and when two copies of the chromosone present itself one just deteriates... It would then agree with the 75% odds, and not the 67% odds expected if it was lethal in its "super form". I think this is probably the best understanding we can make of it, and if a geneticist put a LITTLE bit of work on it, could easily be proven IMO.

[OhhWatALoser]

I am focusing mostly on down syndrome sites, since its about the only thing that seems to have anything close to the data i'm looking for. down syndrome is cause by having an extra chromosome 21. While there seems to be very conflicting numbers, many of them say, that if the parent has down syndrome, you basically have a 50% chance of passing it and if both parents have it, the chances are even higher (75% would make sense). what I still fail to find is why that 2nd extra chromosome doesn't get passed. I keep reading basically that it doesn't just don't know why.

[reptileexperts]

If you think of it like down syndrome, the extra chromosome is linked onto the 21 chromosme pair making it have 3 chromotids instead of 2. If there is one already being passed on, the chances of hitting all 4 together is extremely unlikely and the 4th copy would like deteriate. I studied downsyndrom scans, and even had to do "mock diagnoses" in my coursework at the univeristy based on this stuff, and the inheritance patterns of people with down syndrome. . . The difference is, downsyndrom is a random occurance, and not a gene that is continually being passed on. It's a disorder, that becomes heritable.

[OhhWatALoser]

and the 4th copy would like deteriate.

I just couldn't find that bit of information

it seems not much has gone into when 2 people with extra chromosomes reproduce what happens, but from everything I could find, I think we got a descent theory.

[reptileexperts]

You know, as much as I'd love to have two humans with Downs unite and see what their offsprings DNA looks like, It's a strong grey area in our knowledge of the matter since Human reproduction is not so simple to study in situations like this. Now, if someone were to confirm spider being an extra chromosome disorder, they could use spider BP as a case study in a medical field to exam the possible side effects of human reproduction with extra chromosomes. . . just a thought

- - - Updated - - -

Here we go - trisomy in chromotids will self heal themsevles be deletion of the extra chromosome in MANY cases by either transfering 100% of the single parental chromotid, or breaking the bond and forming a new bond with the other parent chromotid to form a natural bond. . . . case study out of the UK, I'll see if I can find the paper, just found a quote from it,.

[.G&S Royal pythons.]

This is why the hobby is so exciting, because no matter how much back and forth goes on about genetics, YOU NEVER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE OUTCOME OF ANY CLUTCH WILL BE, there will always be a chance for something "weird" to pop up. Great work though.

[RandyRemington]

Wow, very cool work everyone! Especially the OP for raising up so many snakes to get the data to spawn this new theory (lethal seemed much more likely) AND proving a chimera along the way.

I swear I remember a post from Kevin of NERD referring to spiders as "special" snakes. I know my one spider combo hold back this year is a unique eating machine and my favorite.

[Sarah Wales]

This is one of the most impressive efforts I've ever run across, to try and prove/disprove some of the genetic theories we play with. I really think this experiment should be properly documented and written up. Not that I think it qualifies as some kind of peer-reviewable scientific experiment (I suppose it might, I have no idea how you actually went about it) but even an informal, but well-written document, with all the relevant data, and all the questions answered in one place, could be invaluable to current and future ball python enthusiasts.

It would be an amazing read for sure and there are several of us where I am who would love to read it.