Puffy Lip

[thedarkwolf25]

I have a quick question regarding my juvie Retic. She is a great eater and normally will take seconds if one of the others does not eat, but the other day she refused to eat seconds even though she struck and "killed" it. I assumed this was due to her being close to shedding but after looking at her tonight I think I know why she refused. Her upper right lip is a bit swollen looking, as though she may have got some substrate stuck in her mouth or perhaps broke a tooth.

Due to the recent purchase of a new car funds are tight so I would rather avoid a vet visit if I can (but I'll take her if I have to), but is this something that could become serious or is it likely to heal on it's own? I'll try and get some pics up soon if I can get her to hold still long enough for a good shot. Any advice would be helpful.

[MMReptiles]

I'm going to be honest here. A VAST majority of reptile related problems can be fixed at home without a vet, and in fact in my opinion are better than a vet as a vet is stress which isn't needed outside of serious cases.

The first thing you need to find out is the cause of the mouth being swollen. Some retics make a nasty habit of "pushing" basically finding an area in the cage and pushing on it with their face/head in an attempt to get out/meet whatever need they are searching for. This could be attributed everything from temps, humidity, water, food, to breeding. If this is the case the remedy is very simple- fix the problem and give her time to heal up on her own. In my most recent case- I got in a new male- he's around 9-10 foot and very much in breed mode, in the process he pushed his face/jaw so bad that he had infected it/broke teeth, and tore himself up horribly.

The other cause could be as you said, a swollen tooth, this can be easily found by holding the snake by the neck and opening it's mouth and taking a look around. I recommend a nice pair of tweezers. If you do find a tooth, you can gently work it out by massaging the gum around the tooth and working it out.

Of course- with any scenario you're going to want to check the inside of the mouth for both trauma/wounds and a possible infection. Go pick yourself up a cheap bottle of chlorahexadine and dilute it with water. Spray the mouth out and any wounds/trauma to help fight off possible infection. Keep the husbandry right, and she should be back to normal in a week or so.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

How are all of the housing stats? Heat, humidity, etc.. Did you check the mouth for redness, paleness, puss? Any unusually sounds she's making? Had she recently stuck and missed a rat or hit the side of the enclosure?

If there are no signs of illness and the housing is perfect I'd give it a couple days to see if the swelling gets better. If it does not you'll need to see a vet.

My retic ended up damaging a tooth by hitting the side wall of her enclosure while striking at her food one day. It basically caused an accessed tooth that would flare up and cause her lip to swell after almost every feeding. She was treated with antibiotics on two separate occasions, multiple treatments each time at the vet, but the actual problem didn't completely go away until that tooth worked its way out many months later.

These things are always a possibility. Especially with the species that have 2 rows of teeth and hit so hard when they strike.

So like I said, check everything out very well. If it does not look right, is red, or pale white, or has red speckles, take her to the vet for infection. Check all the tissue in the mouth and be sure the trachea isn't swelling. If it looks normal except for that one irritated spot, watch it for a couple days for improvement.

[thedarkwolf25]

She is in a rack running a herpstat and her only source of humidity is the water bowl. Her temps are fine and she just shed a couple days ago so I know her humidity is fine.

As far as the mouth it looks fine except for this one spot, there is no discoloration or blood, just like she got a fat lip. I don't think she missed any strikes lately but she does hit pretty hard so that is what I am guessing. If it hasn't gone down by friday I will schedule a vet visit for her.

[Mike41793]

Do you have any pictures of it?

[MMReptiles]

If there are no signs of illness and the housing is perfect I'd give it a couple days to see if the swelling gets better. If it does not you'll need to see a vet.

My retic ended up damaging a tooth by hitting the side wall of her enclosure while striking at her food one day. It basically caused an accessed tooth that would flare up and cause her lip to swell after almost every feeding. She was treated with antibiotics on two separate occasions, multiple treatments each time at the vet, but the actual problem didn't completely go away until that tooth worked its way out many months later.

These things are always a possibility. Especially with the species that have 2 rows of teeth and hit so hard when they strike.

So like I said, check everything out very well. If it does not look right, is red, or pale white, or has red speckles, take her to the vet for infection. Check all the tissue in the mouth and be sure the trachea isn't swelling. If it looks normal except for that one irritated spot, watch it for a couple days for improvement.

If it hasn't gone down by friday I will schedule a vet visit for her.

Most vets are used to seeing things like ball pythons and boas, most are not used to things like retics or how to handle them properly. The fact you had to go back and forth to the vet for something as simple as a broken tooth is proof of that... Retics commonly have these problems. You're going to be spending a fortune on things that will do little good..

In the event of a tooth lodged in the gum, it NEEDS to be massaged out with tweezers, if you are uncomfortable getting used to working on your snake to help it get better- I HIGHLY recommend rehoming it and finding another snake, as these are fairly common problems you should be able to rectify with relative ease. In the case of infections- most vets will give you a typical antibiotic regiment, and to be honest- it won't do much for your snake's mouth issues. If it is an open wound in the mouth, create a chlorahexadine solution that you can spray into the mouth via a spray bottle. Apply polysporin (not the pain killing kind, the clear kind) to any open wounds, and it will heal right up with relative ease.

Again, a picture would help a great deal- if it's pushing, the vet won't be able to do anything other than charge you a bunch of money for some useless stuff that won't help your snake, and in fact may stress it out even more.

If you need any help with your retic or fixing it up, you're always welcome to PM me. I've spent hours inside mine's mouth cleaning out a pretty gnarly infection from when I got him, working his gum s free of broken teeth, and even fixing up some poorly managed scar tissue I found. He's looking 100% better and is back in breed mode with my ladies

- - - Updated - - -

Dark- I just realized you're location says Denver. I'm located in Colorado Springs. While I work all this week 9 hour shifts - I do have sunday/monday off as well as the entire week from the 12-18th off. I'd be more than happy to take a look in person for you and help you out with him if you'd like to make the drive down this way. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than a vet, and I can show you how to treat it yourself in the future.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Most vets are used to seeing things like ball pythons and boas, most are not used to things like retics or how to handle them properly. The fact you had to go back and forth to the vet for something as simple as a broken tooth is proof of that... Retics commonly have these problems. You're going to be spending a fortune on things that will do little good..

In the event of a tooth lodged in the gum, it NEEDS to be massaged out with tweezers, if you are uncomfortable getting used to working on your snake to help it get better- I HIGHLY recommend rehoming it and finding another snake, as these are fairly common problems you should be able to rectify with relative ease. In the case of infections- most vets will give you a typical antibiotic regiment, and to be honest- it won't do much for your snake's mouth issues. If it is an open wound in the mouth, create a chlorahexadine solution that you can spray into the mouth via a spray bottle. Apply polysporin (not the pain killing kind, the clear kind) to any open wounds, and it will heal right up with relative ease.

Again, a picture would help a great deal- if it's pushing, the vet won't be able to do anything other than charge you a bunch of money for some useless stuff that won't help your snake, and in fact may stress it out even more.

If you need any help with your retic or fixing it up, you're always welcome to PM me. I've spent hours inside mine's mouth cleaning out a pretty gnarly infection from when I got him, working his gum s free of broken teeth, and even fixing up some poorly managed scar tissue I found. He's looking 100% better and is back in breed mode with my ladies

- - - Updated - - -

Dark- I just realized you're location says Denver. I'm located in Colorado Springs. While I work all this week 9 hour shifts - I do have sunday/monday off as well as the entire week from the 12-18th off. I'd be more than happy to take a look in person for you and help you out with him if you'd like to make the drive down this way. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than a vet, and I can show you how to treat it yourself in the future.

My vet was use to retics. He's an exotics vet. He very much liked her quirkiness. He is not however, a vet that will send home syringes and medication... Now do you understand?

I had to take her back every couple days over the course of treatment for her regularly scheduled injections. Because the affected area in her mouth had caused her trachea to swell and her mouth tissue to discolour. It was looking like a bad RI even though the infection had been caused by the tooth/gum problem.

He was less concerned with the tooth issue, as was I, than the bigger infection in her mouth. The problem tooth could not be seen and we both agreed after the infection was gone to just wait it out without putting her through the stress of X-rays.

It did flare up every so often for awhile after that, but only the gum area by the tooth causing the problem would swell. It never did cause another bad infection. It eventually worked itself out.

Believe me, i would not be taking a snake for injections if I did not feel it was needed. I have full faith in the exotics vet that I've used exclusively for my herps, and even a couple rescued birds in the last 20 years.

[MMReptiles]

My vet was use to retics. He's an exotics vet. He very much liked her quirkiness. He is not however, a vet that will send home syringes and medication... Now do you understand?

If properly treated, he shouldn't have to send you home with anything.

I had to take her back every couple days over the course of treatment for her regularly scheduled injections. Because the affected area in her mouth had caused her trachea to swell and her mouth tissue to discolour. It was looking like a bad RI even though the infection had been caused by the tooth/gum problem.

Stress that was induced by the owner not fully understanding the animal or it's potential problems that frequent this species. You claim your vet is qualified with experience with retics- but his first move wasn't to check out the mouth? I have a hard time believing this, so you induced stress, and went through antibiotic injections designed for an RI without ever testing the bacteria or looking at the mouth/checking out the gums? I'd find a new vet, or a decent retic breeder to look at your animal next time. Your vet should stick to ball pythons and corn snakes.

He was less concerned with the tooth issue, as was I, than the bigger infection in her mouth. The problem tooth could not be seen and we both agreed after the infection was gone to just wait it out without putting her through the stress of X-rays.

You don't need xrays to feel for broken teeth in the gums. You need a $1 pair of tweezers, some time, and a little patience. Retics- who for some reason just love to push in general should always have their gums checked first when any issue is shown related to the mouth. If the tooth is not removed, the problem will persist, and it will get worse. I highly recommend your vet do some reading up on retics and their behavior so he can better diagnose and treat the problem, rather than jumping the gun and assuming RI, mouth rot, or other infection causes.

It did flare up every so often for awhile after that, but only the gum area by the tooth causing the problem would swell. It never did cause another bad infection. It eventually worked itself out.

I would strongly advise you to find a retic breeder local to you, and ask them for a little bit of their time showing you how to properly work the inside of your snakes mouth. It will save you a lot of trouble and money in the long run, or- have your vet do it if you're not comfortable with it. Fact is- someone close to you needs to have this ability and the ability to fix mouth related problems for the health of your animal.

Believe me, i would not be taking a snake for injections if I did not feel it was needed. I have full faith in the exotics vet that I've used exclusively for my herps, and even a couple rescued birds in the last 20 years.

Retics are not ball pythons or corn snakes, just like monitors are not bearded dragons. Just because he's an exotic vet, doesn't mean he is experienced hands on with retics- and they are not like other snakes, or to be treated as such.

[thedarkwolf25]

Ok I managed to get a pic of her lip, sorry if it isn't as good as it could be as she didn't want to be messed with.



And MMRep that would be great, is Sunday ok? PM me and we can work out the details.

[MMReptiles]

You mentioned being in a tub, this could potentially be the problem. Observe her and see if you see her rubbing her face heavily against anything, it looks like it's just swollen up from hitting it/pushing it- doesn't look like a tooth problem but it's hard to say from the pic.

Keep me updated on her progress through this week, and I'll send you a PM in a couple days here when I finalize a couple plans I have for my days off (gotta buy rabbits at some point!).