PVC cage heat with UTH / Radiant Heat Panel or BOTH? Cool room.

[3skulls]

I think I'm going to try the RHPs soon. I have flexwatt on the boaphiles and not real happy with it. I like my substrate to be thicker with my boas. The heat coming from above would be better I think.
As of right now the ambient temps are good, I'm worried about this winter. I really don't want to add another space heater in the room.

Thanks for the link Gio. Have you found any in the deep blue?

[kitedemon]

Infrared heat warms objects then those objects affect ambient temps, at least that is the philosophy of the heater I use in my bedroom that is not connected to the house heat. Trust me I stay toasty here in north west Ohio. I don't know how that translates to a mostly empty cage, I use 2 UTH with a dual zone thermostat, and a black incandescent lamp on a dimmer.

While true the sun does not heat the air, it does heat the ground, which heats the air. Far infrared waves also heat moisture which affects air temps.

I would definitely plan on 2 heat sources for your enclosure but I personally can't recommend an RPH until I have used one. There are good folks here that use florescent lighting to raise the ambient temp with great success, I would start there.

Yes exactly. The suns rays do heat objects and they in turn heat the air. Very true but the loss of efficiency is 80-90%? If you have a 24 inch square object lets say black plastic in the sun you can fry an egg on it. If you place the egg in shell (white reflecting the suns rays) 6 inches over it on a metal grate it will not cook at all. 150ºF on the surface and in 6 inches it is down to only a few degrees more than the air temps. Massive heat loss and very inefficient, RHPs do heat the air some just not much. IR heaters are great when you are in front of it and cool when you are not.

[dav4]

[QUOTE=kitedemon;1959099]Where is the ambient air temps measured with and location?

The probe was placed on top of the hide on the cold side...80F this afternoon with a room temp of 64F. The probe read 92F when placed under the rhp.

Honestly, I agree with most of what you're saying, but they are improving ambients for me in my set up, and I'm quite pleased it. I think, also, that it needs to be mentioned again that I've got a herpstat thermometermaintaining things where I want them...a dimmer or low quality thermostat wouldn't cut it here.

[kitedemon]

I just don't think your ambients are coming from the RHP at least not 100% a few degrees maybe but not ten. I am not doubting you at all it just makes no sense.

If you place you hand in the enclosure not under or close to the RHP (with the RHP on) and move your hand toward it until it is directly under the panel there is a point where there is a marked and drastic temp change. Do you agree? Every panel I have seen this is exactly how it works. If it were heating the AIR the air beside the panel would be the same so the change would be gradual not dramatic. See what I am saying? Do you have a light in your set up?

[dav4]

I just don't think your ambients are coming from the RHP at least not 100% a few degrees maybe but not ten. I am not doubting you at all it just makes no sense.

If you place you hand in the enclosure not under or close to the RHP (with the RHP on) and move your hand toward it until it is directly under the panel there is a point where there is a marked and drastic temp change. Do you agree? Every panel I have seen this is exactly how it works. If it were heating the AIR the air beside the panel would be the same so the change would be gradual not dramatic. See what I am saying? Do you have a light in your set up?

I have flourescent lights installed in the enclosure but hardly turn them on, so they aren't a factor. I just took some random measurements with my IR temp gun. The back corner of the enclosure below the ventilation slats, which is farthest away from the RHP, measured 73F on the inside, the rest of the walls on the inside of the enclosure measured 75-78F. The outside temp of the enclosure walls is 67F...the temperature of the room (measured with a digital thermometer) is 62.5F

Again, I'm not saying that the RHP is DIRECTLY warming the air. The air is being indirectly heated by the mulch, hides, and enclosure walls that are being warmed by the rhp. Using your reference to cooking an egg in the sun and taking it a step further, how hot would the air temperature be 6 inches above where the egg is being cooked if you placed a 10 gal aquarium over it? How hot was it in your car on the hottest day of this past summer? How hot does it get in your attic on a hot summer day? I'm guessing the answers to each of my questions would be more then a couple of degrees warmer then the outside temperature. The heat is being captured and contained within the enclosure instead of dissipating into the surroundings...this makes sense to me.

[kitedemon]

You are not measuring ambient temps in your enclosure. IR guns measure surfaces not air. I often see seven degrees difference in surface to air temps. Your walls are 5 degrees warmer than the air if that holds your ambient could be 70-73ºF in the enclosure I know there is no relation it is just to make a point. i don't like seeing below 76º personally and prefer warmer 78º.

Yes cars are heated by radiant heat and then the convection heats the interior this is a product of thermal mass however the mass of your enclosure is relatively slight compared. I am not saying there is no difference just not much.

So you would also say a UTH makes a large difference in air temps?

I am interested because I tested my 40w panel 6 ways to Sunday and I found at most 3º difference not much at all. I spend three months trying different things the largest change was adding a 12 pound rock directly under the RHP this added a handful of degrees 4 I think i don't remember but it is hardly practical or safe as it came a few inches of the panel so the snake could lodge there and cook.

[dav4]

You are not measuring ambient temps in your enclosure. IR guns measure surfaces not air. I often see seven degrees difference in surface to air temps. Your walls are 5 degrees warmer than the air if that holds your ambient could be 70-73ºF in the enclosure I know there is no relation it is just to make a point. i don't like seeing below 76º personally and prefer warmer 78º.

Yes cars are heated by radiant heat and then the convection heats the interior this is a product of thermal mass however the mass of your enclosure is relatively slight compared. I am not saying there is no difference just not much.

So you would also say a UTH makes a large difference in air temps?

I am interested because I tested my 40w panel 6 ways to Sunday and I found at most 3º difference not much at all. I spend three months trying different things the largest change was adding a 12 pound rock directly under the RHP this added a handful of degrees 4 I think i don't remember but it is hardly practical or safe as it came a few inches of the panel so the snake could lodge there and cook.

I know that IR guns measure surface temps...I included these measurements to point out that the coldest place in the cage is still almost 11 degrees warmer then the room temp.

As far as the UTH affecting ambients, I honestly don't have much experience with them, but I've always understood them to be inneffective at warming anything other then the bottom of a cage. Honestly, I feel that the increased surface area of the mulch, and the resultant increased efficiency of heat transfer to the air is playing a big role in my set-up...I also think that a 40w RHP is more effective warming the mulch then a 2' length of flexwatt.

How big/what was the height of the enclosure you used when testing out your enclosure? I would guess enclosures with higher ceilings would not have the ambients my enclosure has, keeping everything else equal. Just guessing...

[dav4]

How big/what was the height of the enclosure you used when testing out your enclosure? I would guess enclosures with higher ceilings would not have the ambients my enclosure has, keeping everything else equal. Just guessing...

...I just read through one of the earlier posts and saw you were using a 40w RHP and had a 12" ceiling. What was the foot print of the enclosure? I suspect that if I removed the divider to my t8 and disabled one of the RHPs, my ambients would drop significantly.

[kitedemon]

my test enclosure is 24x24x12 so same height. I also have one in a much larger enclosure but it is semi arboreal where the RHP works to create a hot spot perfectly. I would be interested to see what the air temps would be measured with the unit you use in the room typically digital units take 30 min to stabilize so it is a bother I get it. I am just curious. It is possible but I would not expect wood chips to hold or release much heat little thermal mass. I don't know it just doesn't make much sense to me. The only thing I wonder is are your ambient air temps what you think they are? I am assuming you have checked with something able to measure them?

[kitedemon]

Blue leds

something like this is what I have there are tons of them on ebay.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Aquarium-...ht_6444wt_1114