Does my UTH need a thermostat? What about Thermometers?

[martin82531]

The temps seem to be holding, and the humidity is slowly going up, for now (42% currently). Even the "cool side " climbed to 78.4 degrees. I'm nervous about turning the light off over night, concerned that it will get too cool in the tank. However, maybe the UTH will do ok on it's own overnight, I don't know. Any thoughts on that?

I'll look for a rat pup tomorrow. The breeders were feeding live, and I thought that I would stick with that while he's on the younger rodents. I'll try to switch to f/t a little later on, to avoid injuries.

Keep in mind the UTH will not do anything for ambient temperatures. Try and avoid a night drop in temperture if you can, you want to try and maintain ambient temps around 77-85 degress.

One suggestion when feeding live, be on standby with an obect you can stick in th rats mouth incase it gets in a position where it can bite your python. I would recomened something like an unsharped pencil or a pen with the lid on. You don't want anything too pointy or sharp.

[SquamishSerpents]

$20 for a single bulb? That's crazy. where I live the bulbs cost $9-$15 max

Yeah. We just have a mom & pop type shop that jacks everything up astronomically, and then same with most shops in Vancouver. Vancouver is slightly cheaper, but still very very expensive for pet-specific supplies. I went to a pet store in the "yuppy" part of Van and there was a tiny block of sphagnum moss for $14!!

[yellowbelly76]

Keep in mind the UTH will not do anything for ambient temperatures. Try and avoid a night drop in temperture if you can, you want to try and maintain ambient temps around 77-85 degress.

One suggestion when feeding live, be on standby with an obect you can stick in th rats mouth incase it gets in a position where it can bite your python. I would recomened something like an unsharped pencil or a pen with the lid on. You don't want anything too pointy or sharp.

I keep that feeding advice in mind, thank you. Regarding the UTH, how well does the heat penetrate through substrate? Before I went to bed, I misted the tank. The humidity went up to 77%, and when I came downstairs in the morning, it was back down to 40%. So, I am thinking about changing substrate to something that would hold moisture better, but wondered about the heat coming through it (was thinking about repti-bark). Also, at 91-92 degrees between the glass and carpet inside the tank, is there risk of burns to the snake if he burrows under loose substrate?

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Yeah. We just have a mom & pop type shop that jacks everything up astronomically, and then same with most shops in Vancouver. Vancouver is slightly cheaper, but still very very expensive for pet-specific supplies. I went to a pet store in the "yuppy" part of Van and there was a tiny block of sphagnum moss for $14!!

Have you tried ordering bulbs online? It has to be cheaper, even with shipping.

[martin82531]

I keep that feeding advice in mind, thank you. Regarding the UTH, how well does the heat penetrate through substrate? Before I went to bed, I misted the tank. The humidity went up to 77%, and when I came downstairs in the morning, it was back down to 40%. So, I am thinking about changing substrate to something that would hold moisture better, but wondered about the heat coming through it (was thinking about repti-bark). Also, at 91-92 degrees between the glass and carpet inside the tank, is there risk of burns to the snake if he burrows under loose substrate?

Yes there is a risk of burn if your python burrows, but not at those temps, just make sure you measure the temps below the substrate level and keep the substrate to 1/2 inch thick and the heat coming through the substrate shouldn't be an issue.

I never had the chance to use repti-bark, but cypress mulch seems to be a good substrate that helps with humidity, I liked Forest Floor from Zoo Med. If you get anything that is not made for reptiles specifically, make sure it doesn't have pine as pine is bad for pythons, it maybe bad for other herps as well.


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[satomi325]

I keep that feeding advice in mind, thank you. Regarding the UTH, how well does the heat penetrate through substrate? Before I went to bed, I misted the tank. The humidity went up to 77%, and when I came downstairs in the morning, it was back down to 40%. So, I am thinking about changing substrate to something that would hold moisture better, but wondered about the heat coming through it (was thinking about repti-bark). Also, at 91-92 degrees between the glass and carpet inside the tank, is there risk of burns to the snake if he burrows under loose substrate?

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Have you tried ordering bulbs online? It has to be cheaper, even with shipping.

If you're measuring temps at the bottom of the glass where the temps are hottest and they read under 95 (preferably under 93 to give yourself some accuracy leeway), then your snake will not get burned. Just make sure you're measuring the hottest part of the enclosure and not the surface temp.

And cypress mulch and coco husk are great for retaining humidity. Sorry if you already mentioned it, but have you tried any other tricks? (Damp towel, tin foil, or plexiglass over 90% of the screen lid)

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[yellowbelly76]

Yes there is a risk of burn if your python burrows, but not at those temps, just make sure you measure the temps below the substrate level and keep the substrate to 1/2 inch thick and the heat coming through the substrate shouldn't be an issue.

I never had the chance to use repti-bark, but cypress mulch seems to be a good substrate that helps with humidity, I liked Forest Floor from Zoo Med. If you get anything that is not made for reptiles specifically, make sure it doesn't have pine as pine is bad for pythons, it maybe bad for other herps as well.


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I'll make sure to stay away from pine and cedar, as I have seen the warnings about those. How well will the heat from the UTH move through the substrate, to warm the area for the snake when in the hide that sits over that spot?

[yellowbelly76]

If you're measuring temps at the bottom of the glass where the temps are hottest and they read under 95 (preferably under 93 to give yourself some accuracy leeway), then your snake will not get burned. Just make sure you're measuring the hottest part of the enclosure and not the surface temp.

And cypress mulch and coco husk are great for retaining humidity. Sorry if you already mentioned it, but have you tried any other tricks? (Damp towel, tin foil, or plexiglass over 90% of the screen lid)

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Thanks for the reassurance regarding burns. I would hate to harm my little guy. I have tried the damp towel, but it seems to dry out pretty quickly. Didn't do foil, although I may try that over the spot that is not covered by plexiglass (plexiglass only covers a little more that half the tank. I had it cut to cover it all, but the lamp got the plexiglass so hot that I was concerned about other problems, so I had it cut down. With the lamp running, I am able to get the cool side of the tank to 78.6, and the hot side is at 91.8 between the substrate and glass.

[yellowbelly76]

Temps look good, seems like its just going to a battle of the humidity . Humidity you want 50%-60%, 60%-70% during a shed cycle. Sounds like you could feed a rat fuzzie or pup. Another good rule of thumb when feeding is the ball python can handle a rat that is the size of the biggest part of the balls body,

Well, the place I went to for food only had adult rats, of various sizes. Decided to get a hopper this time around, and if it goes well, I'll look for a place where I might be able to get rat pups.

[yellowbelly76]

Well, the place I went to for food only had adult rats, of various sizes. Decided to get a hopper this time around, and if it goes well, I'll look for a place where I might be able to get rat pups.

Thus far, my first feeding has been a failure. The BP doesn't appear to be the slightest bit interested in the hopper. Maybe it is due to the fact that the mouse was almost dead when we decided to do the feeding, and therefore wasn't very appealing. I was surprised that the mouse only lasted a few hours in the box from the store...I had expected it to live long enough to get to the feeding. I have left the snake alone, with the mouse, in his feeding bin to see if he takes it without any disturbances. If not, I guess I'll try again next week.

[jkcerda]

Thermometer model please

Ok, so I post this information on a daily basis here on BP.net so I decided to make a write up for future reference.

The most important aspect of keeping reptiles in captivity is providing the proper temperatures/humidity to simulate the reptiles natural environment.

There are a few options available today to provide heat for your reptile. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm going to go over the most popular heat sources in the reptile industry: Heat lamps, Ceramic heat emitters, Under Tank Heaters/flexwatt, and Radiant Heat Panels

The heat lamp:

The simplest of all heat sources, these are incandescent light bulbs that project heat downward warming everything in the cage (including the air!)

When dealing with nocturnal reptiles like ball pythons infrared heat lamps are preferred to white lamps as the bright white light can stress them out and cannot be left on 24/7 meaning that an additional heat source would be needed for night the heat. This is not the case with infrared lamps as they put out very little visible light compared to the amount of heat that they out out.

I suggest getting a heat bulb one wattage size above what you think you need (providing that your lamp can handle the wattage) and use a lamp dimmer to turn down the heat produced to get things just right.


Pros:

• Simple to use
• Cheap
• Heat everything directly under them

Cons:

• Are often too bright to be left on 24/7 (thought some are not *Infrared/backlight bulbs put out very little visible light)
• Can burn a reptile that comes in direct contact (needs to be in a lamp outside the cage except in terrestrial lizard cages)
• Use large amounts of electricity
• Greatly reduce the amount of humidity in the cage

Ceramic Heat Emitters:


Ceramic Heat Emitters or CHE's or short work the same way electric stoves with coils work. They radiate heat without producing any visible light. These are great for providing heat 24/7 without having to worry about brightness.

CHE's tend to get very hot and except for desert reptiles most will require a lamp dimmer or thermostat to keep the heat output in the correct ranges.

Pros:

• Simple to use
• Cheap
• Do not produce any light

Cons:

• Can get very hot
• Can burn a reptile that comes in direct contact (needs to be in a lamp outside the cage except in terrestrial lizard cages)
• Use large amounts of electricity
• Greatly reduces that amount of humidity in the cage

Under Tank Heaters (UTH's)/Flexwatt:


UTH's are by far the most popular heat source for ball pythons since they do not effect the humidity levels in the cage. UTH's attach to the bottom of the cage (on the outside) and heat the floor of the cage. They do NOT change the temperature of the air in the cage so if the air temperature in the cage gets below 75 degrees an additional heat source (usually a heat lamp or radiant heat panel) will be necessary. UTH's get very hot, in fact they can and will get hot enough to kill your snake if they are not regulated. A thermostat is the best way to regulate a UTH. Lamp dimmers will work but the heat output of UTH's changes when the temperature of the room they are in changes so lamp dimmers will have to be constantly monitored/adjusted. Thermostats on the other hand automatically adjust the amount of power going to the UTH so you won't have to adjust them once they are dialed in. You will also need a good probed thermometer. because UTH's do not change the air temperature in the cage the stick on/non-probed thermometers will not be able to tell you how hot the UTH is making the cage floor. If you do not know hot hot the cage floor is your snake can easily get burns (which can be fatal)

I will go over thermostats and thermometers at the end of this write up.

Pros:

• Does not produce any light
• Does not reduce humidity at all
• Uses very little power

Cons:

• Must be controlled by a thermostat (which can be expensive)
• Malfunctions can be hard to notice

Radiant Heat Panels:

Radiant Heat Panels or RHP's for short are popular in the PVC caging world. RHP's do not work well for tubs/racks/glass tanks. RHP's are mounted to the ceiling of a custom made cage/professionally made PCV cage and radiate heat downwards. They do not produce any light.

Some do not require a thermostat, but many do. so I will not include that in the Pros/Cons since it is variable.

Pros:

• Produce no light
• Work very well along with UTH's or alone

Cons:

• Expensive

Here are good places to get RHP's:

RBI: http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

Pro Products: http://www.pro-products.com/index.ph...d=55&Itemid=59

Now I'll go over thermostats and thermometers.

Thermostats are devices that use a temperature probe to measure the amount of heat that a heat source is outputting. They them vary the amount of power going to said heat source to keep the temperature in the desired range that you set it to. There are 2 major types of thermostats. On/off style thermostats, and Proportional thermostats.

On/Off Style Thermostats:

On/Off style thermostats such as true Hydrofarm, Ranco, and Johnsons thermostats are cheap but lack accuracy. they work the same way a home A/C thermostat works. They run the heat source at 100% power until the set temperature is achieved. The thermostat then turns the heat source completely off until the "swing" is reached. The swing refers to how many degrees below the set temperature the thermostat lets the temperature fall before turning the heat source back on again. This is why they are inaccurate.

Pros:

• Cheap
• Will do the job

Cons:

• Inaccurate
• Usually don't have some of the additional safety features that proportional thermostats have.

Here are some good on/off style thermostats:

Hydrofarm: http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

Ranco: http://www.reptilebasics.com/ranco-etc-111000-pre-wired

Proportional thermostats:

Proportional thermostats such as the Herpstat, Helix, and VE-200/300 are extremely accurate and much safer than on/off style thermostats do to more advanced design and high build quality. This does come at a price though. The cheapest I have seen a proportional thermostat sell for (new) is $99. The cost is worth it though. These thermostats especially the herpstat have far more capabilities than on/off thermostats and as I already said are more accurate and safer. Instead on simply running the heat source at 100% power or 0% power proportional thermostats adjust the amount of power in small increments. this allows them to maintain the correct temperature very accurately (usually to a fraction of a degree off of the set temperature)

Pros:

• Safe
• Accurate
• More features (such as the ability to automatically drop temperatures at programed times/regulate humidity/turn lights on/off/etc.)

Cons:

• Cost

Here are somme good proportional thermostats:

Herpstat: http://spyderrobotics.com/

VE line: http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats (note the VE-100 is not a proportional thermostat)

Helix: http://www.helixcontrols.com/DBS1000.htm

Thermometers:

Thermometers are very important they tell you exactly how cot/cold your cage is. You should never guess how hot/cold your cage is. The stick on thermometers sold in pet stores aren't very good. they are terribly inaccurate, overpriced, and don't measure in the right places. What you want is a good digital thermometer with a probe like this one:



This particular thermometer is sold at Walmart for $12 and measures 2 temperatures, and humidity. A single unit is all you need in the typical ball python cage set up. The probe will go on the hot side (directly over/under the heat source) and the unit will sit on the cool side and measure the cool side temperature/humidity.

Another option is temperature guns. these measure surface temperatures of anything that you point them at (Glass/anything reflective will not work well with temperature guns as it will mess with the readings)

Temperature guns are handy if you have multiple cages and want to be able to check them all easily.

Here is a good source: http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermometers

Questions, Comments, and Concerns are welcome

Thanks for reading hope it was helpful.