Has desert female breeding got anywhere?

[Crazygecko]

I am curious where did both lines come from? Could they have originated from them same person in Africa?

[WingedWolfPsion]

It's a single gene, not a hybrid. We know this because the offspring do not look like gradations in between both parents--they are either deserts, or they are not. If the females are not deserts, then they are not sterile, even if they had a desert sire.

In hybrids, the offspring will look like a cross between the parent species--they may look more like one than the other. You will often get individuals that look more like one parent, and others that look like the other parent, in the same clutch/litter. Deserts look like ball pythons, and not like anything else.

[RobNJ]

It's a single gene, not a hybrid.

Off topic, but I think what Crazy gecko is talking about would be more accurately called an intergrade rather than a hybrid....which though I doubt is a plausible scenario with deserts, but can be a real issue in the future of ball python breeding and careless breeders producing hybrids "just because they can". I think it's entirely possible to breed out the look of a different species while retaining some color/pattern traits...it's been done with corn snakes.

[Crazygecko]

Yes what Robnj said is what I was thinking of. And the normal females throwing viable eggs is what I would expect to happen here. If the jag gene was in the desert that's what I think would be the lethal part so normal looking females would be ok.
And after multiple generations I do believe you could get rid of the carpet look. Let's say the snake is only 10% or less carpet and the rest ball then wouldn't it be possible for it to look more like a ball?

[PsychD_Student]

Are there any other morphs of ball pythons where females don't lay viable eggs?

That question right there had me thinking, What if a Desert isn't what we think it is.
I know its a long shot but what if its a hybrid.

I highly doubt that the desert is a hybrid species. The main evidence to support this idea is the fact that this morph is dominant, so only 50% of the offspring have the genetic traits. 100% of a hybrid's offspring would exhibit characteristics such as these and look similar to the hybrid parent.

However, if it wasn't bred to a similarly genetic specimen (i.e. 50% ball python 50% something else) but to a 100% ball python, it would likely look more like a BP than the original hybrid parent due to the decreased "other species" genetic material.

Also, hybrid species of snakes are NOT actually sterile, and there are a multitude of different "morphs" which are dependent on the amount of genetic material of each species. I don't think its immoral or wrong to do the hybrid thing. Its actually kind of interesting and cool-- however it is important to maintain genetic purity in captive species! So all hybrids should be labeled as such, IMHO.

[Crazygecko]

I highly doubt that the desert is a hybrid species. The main evidence to support this idea is the fact that this morph is dominant, so only 50% of the offspring have the genetic traits. 100% of a hybrid's offspring would exhibit characteristics such as these and look similar to the hybrid parent.

However, if it wasn't bred to a similarly genetic specimen (i.e. 50% ball python 50% something else) but to a 100% ball python, it would likely look more like a BP than the original hybrid parent due to the decreased "other species" genetic material.

Also, hybrid species of snakes are NOT actually sterile, and there are a multitude of different "morphs" which are dependent on the amount of genetic material of each species. I don't think its immoral or wrong to do the hybrid thing. Its actually kind of interesting and cool-- however it is important to maintain genetic purity in captive species! So all hybrids should be labeled as such, IMHO.

But what if the hybrid was from a Morph of another species of snake that was dominant? I am not talking about a straight normal ball to a normal carpet but a Jag. That is what I was trying to say.
Jag carpet is a dominant trait so a Hybrid jag carpall would be dominant.
And since the Jag is partialy lethal who knows what could happen and maybe it would make all females lethal or sterile.
Once you start mixing morphs into the Hybrids who knows what would happen to some of these genes. They could be lethal who knows.

[Crazygecko]

[QUOTE=PsychD_Student;1873729]there are a multitude of different "morphs" which are dependent on the amount of genetic material of each species.QUOTE]

There are also morphs that aren't. Check out the youtube vid of the spider carpall. Sick looking snake, but a few gens back into carpets and you wouldnt even be able to tell it was a Ball python co dom morph and it could be passed off as a new carpet morph.
Not saying it would happen but there are some very shady people out there who might not be able to resist the temptation.

[MorphMaster]

Does this mean there's an issue with a female that isn't just desert, say tiger pin? Would it still be infertile as the rumor goes?

[Crazygecko]

As long as the female has Desert in it pretty sure there is a problem until someone proves there isn't.

[Andybill]

Does this mean there's an issue with a female that isn't just desert, say tiger pin? Would it still be infertile as the rumor goes?

I asked this same question on a different thread. From other's experience any female with the desert gene is affected, they are infertile..