Is this possible?

[Jeanne]

OK, guys and gals, I am going to open this discussion up, but, keep in mind, if this gets out of control, I will have to delete this thread. So lets all play nice!

[emroul]

That's what I would like to see.....but for the most part, I think I'll just sit back and see what everyones opinions are Since I already told you mine short and simple.

[Jesús]

Not sure I like the idea of hybrids- dont seem right. And thats not something that would occur often in the wild.

I'm 100% in the same positon as Jeanne :!: . Because if it's not so posible that those things can occur on the wild I personally don't want a fake breed.

[pimp_n_python]

it could happen in the wild
is there any proof that it doesn't????

im very uneducated on this subject wich is why i wanted to dicuss it
its interesting because the possibilities are so endless

i mean we imbreed snakes and don't think twice about it I doubt it that happens much in the wild
why not cross breed??
is there any reasons that they shouldn't be cross bred other than it doesn't happen in the wild much?

[Jeanne]

Ok- here are some reasons we should not cross breed for hybrids. I just dont like the idea..but for those that are into it, thats cool too. But I think there is a time when we have to look at this in a different view.

1.this is not so likey to happen in the wild... maybe an az. king snake and a cali king crossed, but it dont take much for someone to realize this is more likey to happen if these things happen often because of the locality of Az to Cal. But the likeyhood of it happening with a Cali king and say a florida rat snake..not happening. and if it were meant to happen..it would have already happened in the wild.

2.we are messing with a can of worms in more than 1 way: we are then producing something we are likey to know nothing about- what we are getting not just in color or pattern but temperment. could be good- could be really bad. got to think about murphys law here.

3.what about the health of the animal produced and humane issues. will some genetic anomalty occur and you never know what you will get. but even on the worse side, something dying that was bad off- it still should never have been produced.

4.and a big one. it would likely take a long time for this to happen, but i may be wrong. if we were to breed these hybrids cause they are "cool", "different", etc... then lots would be bred and our market would be saturated with them. in the end, we end up with no true cali ks and florida rat snake cause there is no longer a true specimen. we have now made 2 new extinct species. this is from a conservationist look.

I do not know if there is any true statistics on the hybrid subject... but now I got to look, I am curious. Maybe it does, maybe it does not. Fact is, I cant ever remember hearing of any thing like that happening, thats not to say that it has not happened. I have a few ppl. I can contact that may know..if I find anything out, I will post it, I am sure that you all are as curious as I am now.

[BallKingdom]

It's a matter of morals, and I personally do not get involved in hybrid disscussions, it ften caused trouble.

But I do remember someone a while back on KS metnion making an albino bp/angolan ball hybrid to introduce an albino line to angolans. Then slowly weed out the ball genes. It could be done with bloods and balls to create an even better red axanthic...

[Pythagoras]

1.this is not so likey to happen in the wild... maybe an az. king snake and a cali king crossed, but it dont take much for someone to realize this is more likey to happen if these things happen often because of the locality of Az to Cal. But the likeyhood of it happening with a Cali king and say a florida rat snake..not happening. and if it were meant to happen..it would have already happened in the wild.

Even if it were common to find different species breeding together in the wild, the success of such breedings would be lower than single species breeding. The genes between 2 species may be 99% compatable and that last 1% could be a major stumbling block for success. What happens if you mate with an ape? ......umm....nevermind....... :roll:

2.we are messing with a can of worms in more than 1 way: we are then producing something we are likey to know nothing about- what we are getting not just in color or pattern but temperment. could be good- could be really bad. got to think about murphys law here.

Is there anything of value to be learned from hybrid breeding? We won't know until it's been done with the 2 species you may be interested in....and every different form of hybrid may teach something new. People have snakes of all possible temperaments. If you have created a hybrid with a nasty temperament I would simply describe such an animal as "not for beginners." Then again you could theoretically produce some huge man-eating monster with a really nasty temperament.....but the boreneo bat-eater (burmese x reticulated) has already been going on for 20 years with no major repercussions that i've heard of.

3.what about the health of the animal produced and humane issues. will some genetic anomalty occur and you never know what you will get. but even on the worse side, something dying that was bad off- it still should never have been produced.

I think the successful clutch of a hybrid breeding would be a genetic anomally in and of itself. But then again, I guess you could produce an animal with 2 heads, or no heart, or something....but that happens often enough already in the wild, not to mention the EXTENSIVE inbreeding in most breeds of captive-bred "pet" snakes.....corns, balls, red-tails, etc.

4.and a big one. it would likely take a long time for this to happen, but i may be wrong. if we were to breed these hybrids cause they are "cool", "different", etc... then lots would be bred and our market would be saturated with them. in the end, we end up with no true cali ks and florida rat snake cause there is no longer a true specimen. we have now made 2 new extinct species. this is from a conservationist look.

I don't think so. Extinction could only occur if we collect and kill or prevent breeding of all wild specimens in addition to supplying our craving for pet snakes with these hybrids....and everyone that wanted a snake would have to only want a hybrid.


I have never put a whole lot of thought into this issue so I'm sure there are plenty of arguements for both sides that I haven't considered. I do understand why some people may feel like we'd be doing something similar to playing god, in that we'd have created something new. But I also don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If you want them, make them. If you don't want them, then don't buy them. Unless it is harming the 2 original specimens that were interbred, I don't see how it's any more controversial than creating designer morphs in balls that don't occur in the wild.

[pimp_n_python]

hmmmmmmmmm
all very interesting points
especially #3 that was one of the potential flaws that I thought of
i see where you are going with number 4 but you must remember that you can always go and get wild caughts and breed them to get the true species. If the snake was extinct in the wild then there would #4 would most certianly apply
i'm very interested to see what you can come up with as far as facts and i will search around and see what i can come up with
what an interesting subject

[Jesús]

I know that in some one that sound like a cool idea but we have to think in all the things that crossing breeds can cause like Jeanne said. So i restate my point of view now stronger after reading the Jeanne post. I really don't think is a good idea to do it.
Jesús

[CTReptileRescue]

3.what about the health of the animal produced and humane issues. will some genetic anomalty occur and you never know what you will get. but even on the worse side, something dying that was bad off- it still should never have been produced.

We Have a Gopher(Bull) X Corn, It was a rescue.
It is VERY Snotty, Snottiest colubred we've ever seen, (we deal with many types of snakes)
I don't support this (My husband and I debate it alot).
I have alot of standpoints but the best one I can make is that this particular snake is just plain "retarded". After a vet visit, our DVM claimed it to be constantly confused per say. It eats different then either a corn or a bull. It litterally doesn't know what it is. it's just sad to have to witness on a daily basis.
I just personally don't support Hybreds.
Thanks
Rusty