Crap!! Even shipping IN state will end up crossing state lines!!

[Maixx]

Threads on a forum do not constitute knowledge. The fact still remains that you are mailing a package to be delivered intrastate. You are not willfully breaking a law. It will boil down to 2 problems. FedEx and others will simply stop accepting snakes for delivery or you run the risk of the package being inspected and the snakes being confiscated. Even if the package is inspected and the snakes are confiscated, personally I wouldnt worry about legal problems, just being out money or snakes.

The problem with getting caught, this way or any other, is that if the media gets its claws into it, the article will read something like
" ... black market... Smuggling.... Trafficking... of Snakes in the pet industry"
and give more ammo for all the anti-snake laws that are being pushed now.

[Kyle7676]

The problem with getting caught, this way or any other, is that if the media gets its claws into it, the article will read something like
" ... black market... Smuggling.... Trafficking... of Snakes in the pet industry"
and give more ammo for all the anti-snake laws that are being pushed now.

Im as cynical as the next guy but I think thats a stretch. This isnt that big of a media issue to be honest. Outside some circles, this is a non-issue ( media wise ). Had I not read it on here, I would have never known it passed. I watch and read the news regularly and have seen no mention of it. Granted, in some states im sure its much more of a hot topic than other states. Personally, I just dont see this being an issue that the media really picks up and runs with even if a few snakes gets confiscated, especially if they are being shipped properly.

Really, I think this is going to be a non issue because I cant imagine FedEx continuing to ship snakes if their processing centers are setup like it has been said they are. I think the real issue is going to be them banning ALL shipping of reptiles. That would be the easiest way for them to solve any shipping issues.

Of course this is all conjecture at this point. Who knows how this is going to play out.

[C&H Exotic Morphs]

Threads on a forum do not constitute knowledge. The fact still remains that you are mailing a package to be delivered intrastate. You are not willfully breaking a law. It will boil down to 2 problems. FedEx and others will simply stop accepting snakes for delivery or you run the risk of the package being inspected and the snakes being confiscated. Even if the package is inspected and the snakes are confiscated, personally I wouldnt worry about legal problems, just being out money or snakes.

You really think your train of thought would stand up in a Federal Court? And, even if it did work out that you, as the shipper, aren't responsible for the animal being transported across state lines it is still a violation of The Lacey Act. If it turns out that Fedex would be the one responsible; it's irresponsible comments like your's that could possibly put shipping of snakes or even reptiles as a whole at risk!
Our hobby already faces an uphill climb with the additions to The Lacey Act and all of the State and Local legislation that we are facing! We don't need people doing more stupid/irresponsible stuff that can and will put more pressure on us.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Im as cynical as the next guy but I think thats a stretch. This isnt that big of a media issue to be honest. Outside some circles, this is a non-issue ( media wise ). Had I not read it on here, I would have never known it passed. I watch and read the news regularly and have seen no mention of it. Granted, in some states im sure its much more of a hot topic than other states. Personally, I just dont see this being an issue that the media really picks up and runs with even if a few snakes gets confiscated, especially if they are being shipped properly.

Really, I think this is going to be a non issue because I cant imagine FedEx continuing to ship snakes if their processing centers are setup like it has been said they are. I think the real issue is going to be them banning ALL shipping of reptiles. That would be the easiest way for them to solve any shipping issues.

Of course this is all conjecture at this point. Who knows how this is going to play out.

Not that big of an issue outside of certain circles?? Are you forgetting the largest influence the laws and bans have? The biggest supporter both financial and political??

The HSUS!

Just let those (fish turds) get ahold of a story of someone shipping a burm within their state and it going to TNN for a few hours...

It just is not worth the risk..

Let's wait until Robyn gets back to us on this.. He is on good terms with FedEx and knows who to talk to. Hopefully he will get us some answers.


----> Signature <----
*Factoid: "There are no such things as Hogg Island or Columbian boas"

[Kyle7676]

You really think your train of thought would stand up in a Federal Court? And, even if it did work out that you, as the shipper, aren't responsible for the animal being transported across state lines it is still a violation of The Lacey Act. If it turns out that Fedex would be the one responsible; it's irresponsible comments like your's that could possibly put shipping of snakes or even reptiles as a whole at risk!
Our hobby already faces an uphill climb with the additions to The Lacey Act and all of the State and Local legislation that we are facing! We don't need people doing more stupid/irresponsible stuff that can and will put more pressure on us.

I think without a doubt my logic would stand up in court. YOU are not responsible for what fedex does with your package once you give it to them. YOU are shipping a snake IN STATE as the law mandates. Also, I stand by what I said about reading something on a forum does not constitute knowledge on an issue. ( obviously there are exceptions but none which apply in this situation ).

Im confused though, what exactly did I suggest doing that would be irresponsible or stupid ? I clearly stated that I dont think the shipping would be an issue because I imagine FedEx is on top of this and is probably already working on some type of solution, whether it be not accepting snakes or rerouting packages. I could care less if people still try to ship or not. If they choose to that is their choice.

Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.


EDIT :

Let me add this... The reason this law was passed is because of the overhyped stories about large snakes decimating the Florida wildlife. This isnt about a small ball python getting loose and biting someone. Heck, there have been several deaths from larger snakes and still not much in the way of legislation. Take away the burms in Florida and this bill would have never been introduced. THIS is why I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.

This right here is our biggest problem... The (It'll never happen to me) way of thinking.. We should all support each other. No matter what pets we have. CT just banned the big pythons along with monitors, some amphibians, and Quaker (monk) parakeets.. I use to own a Quaker years ago. They are smallish parrots with huge personalities and they talk. Amazing birds and very popular pets..

I support ALL pet owners. Knowing the evil behind the HSUS and the fact that they have every media outlet and politician in their millionaire back pocket should be enough for anyone to NOT recommend doing anything that would cause bad press for us.




----> Signature <----
*Factoid: "There are no such things as Hogg Island or Columbian boas"

[Maixx]

Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.


EDIT :

Let me add this... The reason this law was passed is because of the overhyped stories about large snakes decimating the Florida wildlife. This isnt about a small ball python getting loose and biting someone. Heck, there have been several deaths from larger snakes and still not much in the way of legislation. Take away the burms in Florida and this bill would have never been introduced. THIS is why I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

There are states that have "all reptile" bans going through legislation, and even if its not your home state, with every one of these that passes, it sets a precedent making the next one that much harder to beat.
So yes your bp's could end up eventually being at risk too.

[Kyle7676]

This right here is our biggest problem... The (It'll never happen to me) way of thinking.. We should all support each other. No matter what pets we have. CT just banned the big pythons along with monitors, some amphibians, and Quaker (monk) parakeets.. I use to own a Quaker years ago. They are smallish parrots with huge personalities and they talk. Amazing birds and very popular pets..

I support ALL pet owners. Knowing the evil behind the HSUS and the fact that they have every media outlet and politician in their millionaire back pocket should be enough for anyone to NOT recommend doing anything that would cause bad press for us.




----> Signature <----
*Factoid: "There are no such things as Hogg Island or Columbian boas"

There are states that have "all reptile" bans going through legislation, and even if its not your home state, with every one of these that passes, it sets a precedent making the next one that much harder to beat.
So yes your bp's could end up eventually being at risk too.

IF that happens ( I think that is a HUGE stretch and am not really worried about it ) then I will deal with it. WHEN it happens.

ALL I was doing from the beginning was simply pointing out that some of your " logic " and forum gossiping was off mark. That and I STILL dont get what press you people are talking about ?!? Other than here and other snake forums, there has been no press. My god, I went back and searched the WSJ and other larger news sites and found NOTHING on this. I havent even seen a blip on any news channels. Maybe my search skills suck and I have just changed the channels at the exact wrong moment.

Honestly though, the government could confiscate thousands of large snakes tomorrow and nobody would care ( except the herp community ). I would be willing to bet my truck that you could ask 100 random strangers whats going on with large snakes right now and you wouldnt get 5 that could answer it. ( of course you could ask those same 100 people how many stars were on the US flag and the numbers wouldnt be much higher ).

Sorry if I came off insensitive earlier. Like I said, for the herp community, this IS a big deal. This could hurt / kill thousands of snakes. Destroy income for who knows how many people. Outside the herp community though, nobody knows whats going on... and sadly, probably doesnt care.

[C&H Exotic Morphs]

I think without a doubt my logic would stand up in court. YOU are not responsible for what fedex does with your package once you give it to them. YOU are shipping a snake IN STATE as the law mandates. Also, I stand by what I said about reading something on a forum does not constitute knowledge on an issue. ( obviously there are exceptions but none which apply in this situation ).

Im confused though, what exactly did I suggest doing that would be irresponsible or stupid ? I clearly stated that I dont think the shipping would be an issue because I imagine FedEx is on top of this and is probably already working on some type of solution, whether it be not accepting snakes or rerouting packages. I could care less if people still try to ship or not. If they choose to that is their choice.

Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.


EDIT :

Let me add this... The reason this law was passed is because of the overhyped stories about large snakes decimating the Florida wildlife. This isnt about a small ball python getting loose and biting someone. Heck, there have been several deaths from larger snakes and still not much in the way of legislation. Take away the burms in Florida and this bill would have never been introduced. THIS is why I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

You may or may not be correct about the first part of your post; whether or not you are responsible for what Fedex does with your package once you give it to them. We will find out more about this when Robyn@SYR gets back to us.
To the next part, your logic is very far off base. You DO NOT have to know about a law to be breaking it! So even if someone has a single pet burm and has to move to another state, but has never heard of the addition of burms to The Lacey Act they will still be breaking the law and held responsible for it if they are caught.
The stupid/irresponsible comment is fairly easy to understand. Making a comment that since you won't be responsible for Fedex transporting a Lacey Act animal across state lines it's not that big of a deal for you as the shipper. It is a huge deal, Fedex is one of the last ways for us to be able to ship our animals across the country and if they decided to stop shipping snakes or reptiles because of something like this it would destroy OUR amazing hobby!
As for the last part I completely agree with Maixx and Foshi. We as a community need to stand together in this. Whether you have a single corn snake or 100's of BPs, Boas, Burmeses and Retics. People need to stop thinking that it won't effect them and not caring. And start supporting all other pet owners.

[Maixx]

ALL I was doing from the beginning was simply pointing out that some of your " logic " and forum gossiping was off mark. That and I STILL dont get what press you people are talking about ?!? Other than here and other snake forums, there has been no press. My god, I went back and searched the WSJ and other larger news sites and found NOTHING on this. I havent even seen a blip on any news channels. Maybe my search skills suck and I have just changed the channels at the exact wrong moment.

I agree, I shouldn't have said media in the general. But this is the kind of event that opponents of the herp community use in their propaganda to support the anti-snake laws that they are trying to push. As we have seen with many other negative events or accidents that their spin doctors have used to exaggerate, they might turn one person breaking this law into a "black market" scenario trying to make us all look bad.