Breeder Trade Gone Wrong - a doozey of a story

[Royal Hijinx]

You had me with you just until "His snake comes down with an RI and it spreads through most of your collection." How can his snake coming down win an RI after being in your care for 7 months be his fault?

I would do as advised. File a small claims court or keep his snake but make the agreement in writing.

THis was my question as well. How long was the snake with you before it got the RI?

Either way, I would try to separate the emotional part of it and look at what you are owed vs. what you have. I agree the vet bills and Paypal are likely on you per your contract. That leaves the matter of the snake on hand. If is of proper value (you never said what you lost or what the one on hand is) then talk to him about you keeping this male and cutting your losses there. Overall, the whole thing seems like a lame deal, but that happens. Best to cut your losses and move on.

[JohnNJ]

Have the other person sign a document agreeing to let you keep his snake plus the money sent to your PayPal account as a final settlement and note that the original contract has been fulfilled and has ended.

Then walk away and never look back.

[Otolith]

What a mess. At least you have the 200 and a live snake I guess.
Since he's going to probably just sell the bp maybe yall could agree on you doing it could for him then just give him what's left over from what he owes you after the sale. Might be waiting long time for another paypal payment otherwise. GL

[RobNJ]

The actual validity of the contract would be more suspect than anything should you choose to take legal recourse. As far as his snake becoming ill after the contract had expired, and infecting your snakes...it was still in your possession and became ill while in your possession, so that's a dead issue. Keeping his snake and calling it a wash is probably the way to go, and let it be a tough lesson learned.

If the guy really is selling his collection, then outting him on the BOI will just cause drama for drama's sake and won't really affect him in the long run.

Slim, a lot of people get out of this hobby just to get back in.

[Ash]

Firstly, sorry for resurrecting this thread. After posting it I was suddenly inundated with work and I only got the chance to address it now.

You had me with you just until "His snake comes down with an RI and it spreads through most of your collection." How can his snake coming down win an RI after being in your care for 7 months be his fault?

Sorry, I realize I wasn't very clear. I did keep his snake in quarantine for about 3 weeks just to feel reassured. During that time I noticed clicking and hissing noises and notified the other guy. He said he hadn't noticed it and it might be skin stuck in the nostrils, and after the next shed it went away. After that I let it near my collection.

A little while later the clicking appeared in other members of my collection. The whole process took months and escalated extremely slowly.

Basically, I know it came from his snake, but I realize there's no way to prove it and even if I could, it wouldn't matter considering I accepted that risk in the first place. I only mentioned it because it makes me angry.

Since you agreed to the lesser amount of $550, that's what you're entitled to now.

You're not entitled to any compensation for Paypal fees, especially since you pointed him to Paypal, and you should have known they charge 3%, it's part of accepted loss using their service.

Since you signed to feed and care for his snake, you cannot charge him for food or vet care...

When your snake died, if you wanted to not pay for his male's upkeep, you should have returned him then. Of course, then you'd have no bargaining chip, so it's understandable to not return the only collateral you had.

I agree with you about the paypal charges. When I originally made this thread I was pretty steamed, but I'm willing to admit now that I should absorb those charges myself.

However, I’m not sure about the amount I’m entitled to. I agreed to the reduced amount of $550 over an instant messenger, and since that time, many other issues have come up. Firstly, a lot of time passed since I settled for less, meaning I spent a lot of money on the upkeep of his animal beyond the time I agreed to. Secondly, I only agreed to look after his snake given the fact that he was looking after mine. For a considerable amount of time, I’ve been pouring money into his animal while mine no longer exists.
Are you saying I have to accept the $550 because that’s what the law says, or just from an ethical standpoint? He signed a piece of paper saying he’d be liable for $700. I feel that that alone means he owes me $700, bottom line.
I’m really in the dark here and I just want this situation to end as fairly as possible.

[WingedWolfPsion]

You had me with you just until "His snake comes down with an RI and it spreads through most of your collection." How can his snake coming down win an RI after being in your care for 7 months be his fault?

VERY VERY EASILY--if the RIs are due to a virus and NOT a bacterial infection. I've had snakes with RIs. They do not generally spread, because a snake has to be slightly immunocompromised to develop a bacterial respiratory infection. I had one or two snakes come down with an RI each year when i was cooling to breed. Since I stopped doing so...I haven't had any snakes come down with one. I never had snakes appear to pass it to each other, and never removed the ones who had it from their spot in the rack. If your grandma has pneumonia, it's ok to give her a hug. If she has a cold, or the flu, it's a different story.

When you start getting snakes coming down with an RI one after another, and nothing weird has happened (like a power outage and cold temperatures), you should wisk them into quarantine, and get a vet to treat them aggressively. Most viral illnesses in snakes are not easily diagnosed. What happens is, they'll be given antibiotics, and they will either live, or they will die. The antibiotics will only prevent a secondary infection, they won't make the animal well--the illness will run its course on its own.
This is exactly what happens in humans who have Influenza.
Yes, the vet will be able to culture SOMETHING from them, but that doesn't mean that the bacteria they culture are the root cause of their infection.

If you have a snake on loan from someone, and they start saying they have snakes DYING from Ri....get that snake away from your animals, and quarantine everything it's touched...for a YEAR, because some of these viruses can incubate for over TEN MONTHS.

THAT is how he could be responsible for the snakes in her collection getting sick after she'd had his snake for 7 months.

Is that what happened? I don't know, but I do know that if I ever did a breeding loan, every animal I bred to the loaner male would go into quarantine with him, and they would not come out again for 12 months.

I think the contract was a bit ill-advised, as there should have been some plan for what would happen if either party defaulted on their responsibility.

I also think he should have been held to the full amount.
The contract should have included a clause for you to keep his animal if he was unable to pay you.

I think small claims court is a possible solution, but if he's gambled himself into debt, he may simply not have the money to pay you, anyhow.