Breeding Issues

[Xotik]

So for the last month I've been pairing two of my BPs. This is my first year doing this, so I'm exceptionally new to this. It also doesn't help that I'm breeding two virgins.

Here's my problem -
I've been pairing them on and off every 3 days (3 together, 3 apart) and offering food on the 2nd day apart - to both of them. Sometimes the female eats, the male never eats (I've had him since Oct, and he hasn't eaten so much as a fly).
Temps for both tanks are 91-80 (hot to cool), humidity is between 60-70, depending on time of day. Both tanks have two hides - both are large enough for both snakes to fit in comfortably. I've been putting them in Her tank - not his. I understand this can take a while, but here's my concern.
Both of them are kept in 55g aquariums with black mesh lids that I've messed with to make them hold moisture better. They do not require tie-downs like some of the others do. They just do not care about getting out. Ever.

Until I put Icky in with Sable. They are usually fine, but whenever Sable gets to "Tail snuggling" he absolutely FREAKS and runs for his LIFE. I've tried putting a tie down on the tank but whenever I do that - I watch them - and Icky was trying so hard to get out I was afraid he was going to hurt himself.

Should I stop pairing them? I'd really like to experience breeding and eggs and fun babies and such, but not at the cost of my pets health and - maybe even lives. Is this natural? - And yes - I've had them probed, Sable is female, and Icky is male. There's never been any hissing, or striking or any signs of hating. Just that Icky is running away from Sable like a 13 year old boy from a 16 year old girl.

I'd really like to get them to lock, or should I try Icky on another female that is closer to his size? I don't have any other males that are of breeding age - my other three are all 2011's.

Anybody have any ideas?

[Anatopism]

A couple questions... how old and how big (weight) are each or your Bps? How long have you had both of them, and you say the male hasn't eaten since October. Has he eaten at all while in your possession?

Lastly... I know you say they don't try or care about ever getting out, but I strongly suggest you do a search on all the threads with escaped or missing snakes. just because they haven't shown any interest in getting out before, doesn't mean that they wont in the future, or that you wont be devastated when it happens. For their safety and your mental well being, find a way to safely secure your lids.

[Xotik]

A couple questions... how old and how big (weight) are each or your Bps? How long have you had both of them, and you say the male hasn't eaten since October. Has he eaten at all while in your possession?

Lastly... I know you say they don't try or care about ever getting out, but I strongly suggest you do a search on all the threads with escaped or missing snakes. just because they haven't shown any interest in getting out before, doesn't mean that they wont in the future, or that you wont be devastated when it happens. For their safety and your mental well being, find a way to safely secure your lids.

Icky was 1174g yesterday, and Sable was just shy of 2000g. Icky is an '05, Sable is 4-5 years old. Icky has never eaten in my possession, and the previous owner stated he had eaten 2 weeks before I had purchased him, but had refused the previous week. I have offered him both live and f/t. I've tried different colors, different genders, ect. to no avail. I have had Sable since late Sept, and I've had Icky since early October (I got them about 2 weeks apart). They had both just come out of quarantine when I started breeding them.

And yes - I know about securing them. They actually do have tie-downs on their tanks - they just don't need them. Like I said - whenever I actually tied down the one on Sables tank when I had both in there, he tries to squish out for dear life. To be honest - I would rather him get out, because I know exactly where he would go. I have a small box RIGHT next to the heater. The two times he got out - guess where he was?

[Anatopism]

They actually do have tie-downs on their tanks - they just don't need them.

The two times he got out

I would focus more in getting your boy to eat rather than breed at the moment. If he hasn't eaten for you yet, I'd be concerned about finding out exactly why he isnt eating. Based off of how you described his behavior when putting with your female, I wonder if it isn't stressing him more, which certainly wont increase his appetite any

[Homegrownscales]

I personally wouldn't have taken him out of qt until he ate and showed all signs of being healthy, normal, and destressed.
Secondly. Do you know for a fact that you have a pair? I've seen smaller males get really freaked out like that when put near another male or a larger male.
If you do truely have a pair I would say that there is something going on with that male.
And I'd pull him from breeding.
That's not normal breeding behavior though even for small or insecure very shy males. He shouldnt be stressing that hard from being placed with a female.
I would take a second look at sexes. It wouldn't be the first time people have been fooled.


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[Xotik]

I personally wouldn't have taken him out of qt until he ate and showed all signs of being healthy, normal, and destressed.
Secondly. Do you know for a fact that you have a pair? I've seen smaller males get really freaked out like that when put near another male or a larger male.
If you do truely have a pair I would say that there is something going on with that male.
And I'd pull him from breeding.
That's not normal breeding behavior though even for small or insecure very shy males. He shouldnt be stressing that hard from being placed with a female.
I would take a second look at sexes. It wouldn't be the first time people have been fooled.

I assumed that he was unwilling to eat due to breeding season.
I purchased him as a male, and had him double checked when I picked him up.

The female was purchased as a female, and I had her checked by a local breeder after bringing her home. (I don't trust myself to do it myself)

The thing that's really weird is that he doesn't flee until she tries to tailsnuggle him. Otherwise he doesn't have a problem with her - they do all the normal things you would think two snakes in a tank would do.

And really - he's not /that/ small - just compared to her he is.

I'll have them both re-checked tomorrow.

Icky did pass in November, and I saw no evidence of anything internal. He also hasn't lost more than 5g in the few months I've had him. He also had no evidence of anything else wrong - hence why I brought him out of quarantine.

I'm fairly concerned about him, so I'm glad to get a few responses on the matter. Thank you guys.

[Xotik]

So I had the genders checked today. Turns out that Sable is actually just an exceptionally large male.
Rethinking all breeding plans now - because now I have more males than females. And that's backwards

[Anatopism]

Good call from homegrownscales

[Xotik]

Good call from homegrownscales

ANNNNNND Homegrown Scales wins by a landslide!
Thanks guys. I was fairly certain of what I had - but as usual, I'm wrong.

[Homegrownscales]

Oh geez! Sorry to hear that but I had a feeling.... Glad I helped you figure that little conundrum out.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com