Nose Rubbing

[captainjack0000]

About two weeks ago while on school break we noticed our ball python rubbing her nose along the top of her cage at night. She had a few rough patches on her face, but it didn't warrant a vet. We searched the web and the first two things people suggested were

1. Mites and
2. RI (look for wheezing, bubbles, and snot)

We thought our presence at home might have been too much for her (since normally for several hours a day we were at school) and since we were leaving for a week vacation we thought we would wait and see how our BP looked after returning. The time away would be more similar to the work week and maybe she would calm down and stop rubbing her nose.

Before leaving we soaked her in warm water to check for mites, as per someone's suggestion and we saw no mites or anything really.

Her face and nose look much worse after having returned from vacation (got back tonight). No scabs or scarring, but definitely flakey dry skin all around the heat pits and lower lip. I don't see any mites, and I don't hear wheezing, or see bubbles. I suspect it is simply nose rubbing along the top of the cage.

She's in a 40 gal breeder with several hide spots and decorative plants to give her security. Photos of head and cage set up upon request.

Normally the humidity is 50%-70%, sometimes 40% but always on the high end around shedding time. Temps range from 74 to 90 along a gradient. Tonight when we got home, the humidity was down near 30%, but I presume that is only because of the cold front that moved through. We're in northern flroida and humidity is usually really high. We used an UTH for while we were gone because it allowed for natural day/night cycles. At night, when we're home, I drape a 3 sided cloth over the top to help make it dark and offer her security.

She eats regularly, poops regularly, and seems cool as a cucumber.

Virtually all other posts have said, ignore the problem and she'll learn there is a top to her cage. Some have suggested neosporin to help prevent infection, and only consider a vet if it looks really bad (scabs, puss, blood).



How long should I wait for her to stop rubbing her nose? Is there anything I can do to train her to stop rubbing her nose?

[Daybreaker]

How big is she and what are you feeding her and how often?

Is she housed near or by any male ball pythons?

How does your UTH allow for day and night cycles? Are you using a bulb of any kind?

Has anything changed in the room where she's housed or near her tank?

[Annarose15]

How does your UTH allow for day and night cycles? Are you using a bulb of any kind?

BPs are nocturnal and spend most of their natural lives underground - they do not need day/night cycles or any UV supplemental lighting.

To the OP - Without knowing your feeding schedule and prey size (or snake size, for that matter), my first guess is that she is hunting/hungry.

[captainjack0000]

The guy who sold us the snake told us she hatched in July, so she's probably 5 months or so. She's probably at least 2 feet, but not much more. We try to feed her a full sized mouse about every 5 days, but recently bumped her to large mice - they more closely match her girth. We try not to go any longer than a week between feeds, such as when we're on vacation.

The UTH allowed for day night cycles because since we were out of the house it was light when the sun was up and dark when the sun was down. We weren't going to leave a heat lamp on for a week straight.

I don't have any special UV bulbs, but I try to most closely match what I think they'll encounter in nature. If the light bulb is on, she gets misted. During shed cycles, its UTH only to keep humidity up because those bulbs do dry out the tank right quick. I use the 3 sided cover to give her more darkness - the open side is the wall, not the front. She's in the living room and I don't go to bed at sundown.

The only other animal is a corn snake about 3 feet away in a different tank. We are in an apartment, so who knows what our neighbors have.

Nothing has changed recently enough to suggest it was that which caused the behavioural change. The only thing I can think of is that she's actually grown long enough to reach the top of the tank and put some force into it. The tank is 16" tall, so climbing on her log homes she can actually push pretty hard on the top.

[Daybreaker]

BPs are nocturnal and spend most of their natural lives underground - they do not need day/night cycles or any UV supplemental lighting.

I know, I was just curious about how a UTH would give a day/night cycle as they're on 24/7 - not like a light bulb where some people turn off at night to give their snakes the day/night cycle (I don't use any CHEs for any of my snakes).

To the OP: I would say she's probably hungry too. Do you know how many grams she might be? Maybe the feeders are getting too small for her and she's still hungry after her meals hence the rubbing?

[Alexandra V]

That's also a fairly big enclosure for a BP her size. It could be stress-related nose rubbing because perhaps even with the hide spots and plants she still isn't quite secure. I'd say try either blacking out the back and sides of the aquarium or setting her up in a tub so that it's more secure and see if the rubbing stops.

[Crazy4Herps]

Don't worry; from the sounds of it you are doing everything perfectly. I've seen many snakes go through periods of nose rubbing, usually not lasting more than a month.

If she's just restless increased handling time may help, but if she's feeling insecure (some handle large enclosures better than others) that would only make things worse...

Nose rubbing sores are rarely problematic and small sores are nothing to worry about, but it's a good idea to dab on some Neosporin (w/o pain relief) every couple of days to ensure it doesn't get infected.



I've recently had some serious long-term nose-rubbing issues with one of my boas. Husbandry and feeding were fine, she just has a problem with glass. It eventually got so bad that she ended up rubbing her nose down to the bone and developing a big swollen area on her upper jaw.

I posted the story here if you're interested: http://redtailboa.net/forums/boas/73...tion-pics.html

I've now moved her to a tub and am flushing out the swollen area daily with chlorhexidene as well as applying silver sulfadiazine to the sores and giving her several hours out of the tub every day.

I'd say if she doesn't stop in the next few weeks you might want to think about moving her to a small, opaque-sided tub, at least temporarily. There isn't a formula to keeping snakes in captivity, and what works for one snake may not be the best setup for another.

[captainjack0000]

When we first got her, she was in this tank (40 gallon). The first night she explored around and eventually settled down. We first used shipping tubes for her hides - it was the most rodent tunnel like thing I could find. She actually still has one tucked under one of her hide logs. It gives her that extra tight hide, though she usually spills out and is somewhere between that and the inside of the half log. She's been calm and secure in that enclosure for a while, that is until we noticed the nose rubbing.

After she feeds she settles down on the UTH and hangs there for 24-36 hrs. We used up the last of the f/t regular mouse size tonight and will keep her on large mice for a while and see if that helps. It is entirely possible that we have not kept her food size at pace with her growth. A little bit of exploring seems like a good thing to me, I just don't want her to rub her face raw.

Thank you for everybody who has posted. I love this website for prompt responses. It puts our minds at ease.

[Twist]

My retic was rubbing her nose when I first got her. All she did was try to escape. It'll pass eventually but if she starts hurting herself, move her to a plastic tub.

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[MrBig]

At five months old, I would switch her to rats. Weigh her and you should be feeding 10-15% of her weight in prey. I would lean toward the 15% to see if that calms her down. Good luck