boas cohabitating with pythons

[Highline Reptiles South]

smh.......read a little bro...

[avriette]

Perhaps someone can help me understand a little here. I'm not trying to be contrary, but I've been reading a lot on the web because I was quite surprised by the answers. Seems to me when we go see snakes at the zoo, they are often kept 2-ish to a tank. Same would be true of juvenile snakes I see from breeders on youtube. And then there are pet stores (hardly the best-and-brightest, but I've seen lots of pythons kept in the same tank over the years, and in a couple of instances, boas and pythons kept together).

The word on the web seems to be that you can keep ball pythons together, but with the caveat that a) you'll wind up with eggs and b) diseases become a problem with a distant c) of one may eat the other.

A couple of places say that the attitude has changed over the years, which may be why I was misinformed; I've kept ball pythons since 96 or so, and they've always been together (fed separately of course). These two are just the newest. But back then we didn't have forums where I could ask questions. This is my first boa.

Anyways, it would be helpful if somebody could explain a little if there have been changing attitudes on the concept, or if I am missing something when I see a few large burms at the zoo, and so on.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

[heathers*bps]

smh.......read a little bro...

I don't think snide sounding comments are what needs to be posted. The OP is here looking for help and guidance, not to be made to feel stupid or talked down to.

I'm not trying to sound snide or [mean] either, just wanted to say that I'm sure we ALL have things to learn and bp.net is a wonderful place for that and to help out other herpers

[Alexandra V]

Perhaps someone can help me understand a little here. I'm not trying to be contrary, but I've been reading a lot on the web because I was quite surprised by the answers. Seems to me when we go see snakes at the zoo, they are often kept 2-ish to a tank. Same would be true of juvenile snakes I see from breeders on youtube. And then there are pet stores (hardly the best-and-brightest, but I've seen lots of pythons kept in the same tank over the years, and in a couple of instances, boas and pythons kept together).

The word on the web seems to be that you can keep ball pythons together, but with the caveat that a) you'll wind up with eggs and b) diseases become a problem with a distant c) of one may eat the other.

A couple of places say that the attitude has changed over the years, which may be why I was misinformed; I've kept ball pythons since 96 or so, and they've always been together (fed separately of course). These two are just the newest. But back then we didn't have forums where I could ask questions. This is my first boa.

Anyways, it would be helpful if somebody could explain a little if there have been changing attitudes on the concept, or if I am missing something when I see a few large burms at the zoo, and so on.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I see where you're coming from with the remark about seeing them often kept a few to a cage in zoos, videos and stores. Thing is though, all of those situations are situations in which they have limited space. Either they know that it's not the best but they do it anyways simply because they have no other choice, or they don't know better and just do it because they think it's fine.

And as for the changing attitudes, there definitely have been changes in the attitudes of keepers over the years, and there will continue to be changes as time goes on because that's how the pet industry works. We're constantly learning more and more about the animals we keep and make adjustments to the way we keep them accordingly.

For instance, come back with me to the 30's; people kept dogs and fed them table scraps and foods that were practically plastic for all we know, and that was perfectly fine in their minds because nobody knew better. They thought they were doing the best for their dogs, and the dogs did alright with it, despite it not being ideal. Then people did more and more research as time went on, and all the way up to today people are becoming more and more conscious of what they're feeding their dogs (and cats for that matter) and we're seeing a rise in consumers buying higher quality and holistic pet foods for their animals because we've learned that it tends to be better for them. Back in the thirties, that would have all been nonsense.

Same thing goes with the snakes. They used to be kept together because nobody thought much of it. There were occasional incidents of disease or cannibalism etc, but people just thought it a fluke, and thought it more or less unnecessary and inconvenient to house them separately. Now we're seeing better caging systems that save space and allow us to house snakes separately while keeping a lot of free space, as well as more and more people figuring out that it's better for them to be separate, so views have changed.

[JLC]

We do learn more and more over the years. And with the explosion of the internet, people are learning more and faster than ever.

I will say that there is not a specific "ONE RIGHT WAY" to keep ball pythons, or most any species. Different people have different methods that work for them.

With regard to snakes living together, you mentioned the caveats yourself. There are RISKS associated with doing so...some serious like potential illness or one killing the other...some less serious, such as them simply stressing each other out. People DO choose to accept these risks. Does that make it right? Those of us who choose not to accept those risks don't think so. And we'll be quick to tell you why.

The way I see it...so long as we do our best to make you AWARE of the risks and pitfalls of the snakes living together, the rest is up to you to decide.

I would NEVER use a pet store as a yardstick for measuring how to properly care for any animal. Even the really good pet stores have to take shortcuts that most of us would not dream of. And very few pet stores are anywhere close to "really good." Do they get away with it? Sure...so far as you know. Doesn't make it right.

Zoos are an entirely different matter. First off...not all of them take proper care of their animals either. I've worked in a zoo that was horrible. It's not pretty. The good zoos that I've seen DON'T house animals together that should be housed individually. When they DO house animals together, they can do so successfully because they have professional keepers with years and decades of experience who know how to make sure the animals are thriving, and are willing to make changes if the animals are not thriving.

You can only use your own experience and your own judgement. We can only offer advice based on ours.

[Kinra]

Opinions are always going to change, especially with the web. We are able to better share information now thanks to the internet.

I have books on ball python care that go all the way back to 1989 that tell me every ball python I find is going to be wild caught, sick and infested with parasites and I just got into ball pythons last year.

Our knowledge of their care has greatly expanded in the past few years which is how we have arrived at the opinion that you shouldn't house two snakes together. It stresses them out. Honestly you listed the caveats to housing them together, so why would you want to even chance it?

Technically they can be housed together, but no one recommends that any more because of the risks involved. Zoos and pet stores also aren't the best examples to look at. They both have lots of problems that I don't feel like going into right now, suffice to say they run on procedures that were written years ago and they aren't willing to change. I recently read an article about a zoo keeper who was fired for killing a corn snake on accident because of their feeding procedures.

I don't know what videos you have seen, but some breeders will keep baby snakes together until they shed for the first time which is different than permanently housing them together. Housing snakes together at shows is also different because it's temporary.

At the end of the day it's ultimately your choice on what you want to do in regards to your snakes, but I don't know anyone here who would recommend you house any snake together.

[avriette]

Technically they can be housed together, but no one recommends that any more because of the risks involved.

Well, this clears a lot up. I suppose I will start looking into housing for them. More complicated than I thought; I thought it was going to be easier now that they'd all be living in the same tank! Sheesh!

Thanks, all.

[Reakt20]

Well, this clears a lot up. I suppose I will start looking into housing for them. More complicated than I thought; I thought it was going to be easier now that they'd all be living in the same tank! Sheesh!

Thanks, all.

I would look into a rack or stackable enclosures. Building a rack is easy and cost effective. Buying one is more expensive but ensured quality. Stackable enclosures may also be expensive but are ideal. All are great as far as space efficiency go though.

Regular Sterlite or Rubbermaid sweater tubs (storage bins) work great as well and cost you around anywhere from 5-20 bucks! Make sure they have enough holes in it for air circulation and a regulated UTH for it and they work great! Holes can easily be made by a soldering iron or a dremil tool.

[Emily Hubbard]

I do applaud you for being interested in learning more.

I agree to never use pet stores as your guide. The animals there are meant to housed temporarily. If every animal was sold within a week or two, it might not be so bad, but so many of them spend years living together.

When you see two snakes "cuddling" together, it is not the least bit affectionate. They are usually competing for a heat source. Cold blooded animals cannot give off body heat, so they cannot keep each other warm by "cuddling." When you have multiple snake and only one heat source, not all snakes can properly thermoregulate. That leads to digestive problems, sickness, and even death. If you have as many heat sources as you do snakes in one enclosure, chances are your ambient temp will skyrocket to deadly levels. All around, the safest, easiest solution to every problem is separate homes for each snake. They will be much happier, and you will save on vet bills in the long run.

[Vypyrz]

So I have your average RTB, who is about 9 months old. He's three-ish feet long and about 2.5kg. I also have two ball pythons, a male and a female, who are now almost two years old. The male is a little less than 2kg, and the female is right about as big as the boa...
...The boa is eating twice a week, and the pythons are eating once a week.

What are you feeding the boa? Twice a week is a little much. I suggest a 7-10 day feeding schedule. 2500 grams seems a little over weight for a 3 foot long snake....