Live food...why? Honestly & with facts!

[SlitherinSisters]

I feed live, to be honest, because it is easier. I breed my own rats, and my snakes readily take live rats. I don't like the hassle of thawing/warming live rats, it stinks and it's gross. I love rats, I have had pet rats for 5 years, but I would be prefer feeding live over frozen. I don't, however, enjoy watching/hearing the rats die. I really don't watch the snakes eat.

[ChuckSM]

Frozen is cheaper and easier since that dead rat wont try to kill your snake running for its life but...

Sometimes the snake just wants something on the run and they can not pull up to the drive thru

[KingPythons]

I feed live, to be honest, because it is easier. I breed my own rats, and my snakes readily take live rats. I don't like the hassle of thawing/warming live rats, it stinks and it's gross. I love rats, I have had pet rats for 5 years, but I would be prefer feeding live over frozen. I don't, however, enjoy watching/hearing the rats die. I really don't watch the snakes eat.

I just hope ppl don't use bowls or cups to put the rat to thaw in. That's gross. Just dead animals in peoples fridge besides pork, chicken etc is gross lol. Just saying.

[Rogue628]

I just hope ppl don't use bowls or cups to put the rat to thaw in. That's gross. Just dead animals in peoples fridge besides pork, chicken etc is gross lol. Just saying.

I think most are like me and have a dedicated freezer for frozen feeders. I also have dedicated round plastic storage containers that I use to thaw mine out. They look completely different than all my other storage containers so they never accidentally get put with my food containers...and are kept by the freezer.

Almost all of my snakes came to me eating f/t. I have had one so far that would only take live. I didn't attempt to force the issue of f/t on her. Each week I'd attempt f/t and she'd show no interest so I'd feed her live. She eventually decided to take f/t.

Years ago when I used to keep snakes, I only fed live because that's what I was told to do....it was best for them. It wasn't until I rescued a burm and watched the battle* I immediately looked for an alternative, which was f/t. All my animals had no issues making the switch either.

*ok it wasn't a real battle. I just couldn't stand watching the rat claw and try to bite my snake as it was being squeezed to death. I was scared he was going to hurt my snake!

[Redneck_Crow]

I'm currently feeding live to the ones who aren't off feed for breeding season. The reason is because neither of them will accept f/t or even prekilled.

I've tried multiple times on the one and a couple of times on the baby and it's a no-go so far. I wish those two would switch over. Their food stinks and has to be fed and cleaned up after.

[John1982]

I think it's up to the owner to decide what's more convenient to them. We could argue all day the pros and cons of F/T vs F/K vs live and really get nowhere as each method has its merits.

I do wonder from those who think their snakes are happier one way or another, how do you know this? I honestly don't think a snake gives two farts one way or another but that's just me.

[John1982]

Forgot to add, I usually feed f/t, sometimes fresh killed and seldom live. I do offer food to the shy feeders first so if they don't feed I can just give the dead rodent to one of my other animals so as not to waste unnecessarily.

[Missy King]

You are so right, John1982.

AH, i had this huuuge post with questions, pics, and responses, and the darn thing lost internet connection as i was posting and i lost it all. I gave up posting for a day i was so irritated *lol* that hasn't happened to me before in 13 years on the internet so i guess i was due.

ANYway...the main thing i had wanted to comment on was rabernet, who said "I feed live to all my ball pythons except my albino, and that's only because I don't like seeing any blemishes on him, like scratches from a kicking rodent. It doesn't hurt them, their scales are designed and do protect them."

I'll just be blunt here and ask why you think it's okay that your other snakes are allowed blemishes, or scratches, or worse...but your favorite isn't. That is like admitting that yes, they DO get hurt from live food...but you have one that is more worthy of not getting hurt.
Just weird.

Egapal, i had what i thought was a great debate to respond with, but i'll just shorten it to that I think f/t can be re-frozen as many times as it takes, as long as there is no introduced bacteria that is resilient to freezing....or there is no freezer burn.
That is also why i think it's weird people insist they have to throw out food, if the snake doesn't eat it the first try. F/T are way cheaper than live, at least for me. In a year, i think i've thrown out two mice because they became too rank.
In the wild, BPs will eat corpses of rodents, etc. They do that at my house too...one of my dumeril's won't even take food unless it's left in her cage for a few hours. The previous owner said she was afraid of live, so i haven't tried....which if i did, i would probably still go for a bop on the head first!

I do concede that perhaps BPs are not fully domesticated, as i did look it up and they are constantly imported (which i think is ridiculous and unnecessary). You are right in saying they were chosen as a great pet because they are mostly naturally docile...
Still, I would say that a good portion of them have been domesticated to a point, since as i copied earlier " from wikipedia 'Domestication (from Latin domesticus) or taming is the process whereby a population of animals or plants, through a process of selection, becomes accustomed to human provision and control.' "

I mean, that has to be agreed with a little bit! It's not just opinion!
The fact that they ARE docile naturally...and those are the ones chosen from the wild, and those are the ones who are bred in captivity, means they are perposely selected, and become accostomed to human provision and control....even if we take the food out of it all together...they rely on us for everything else. I know one of my BPs checks his water dish EVERY day for fresh water. (It's quite cute actually
He's actually the most violent dude i have besides my carpet python.
His name is "Bitey" LOL
He snatches his food, and will protect it (not just look over it for a good place to start eating), and he will CHARGE you, and try to chase you away if you come near. That's funny too, but i really try to stay away from him when he's eating *lol* My other 3 bps, and my other many snakes act nothing like this.
But the brat still waits for his human go give him water!
That is, to me, a clear sign of domestication, even at a small level.

Anyway, i don't think i can change anyone's opinion. I don't really like the idea of feeding live...but i understand the need in CERTAIN cases. As for people with like 60 snakes, i feel it's just lazy. No offense, but really...we cage them, provide for them, and they could not survive in captivity without us...so why wouldn't we at least WATCH to make sure they are not hurt? Of course their scales provide protection...that's how they were designed. They are more durable than our skin...which is OUR protection..but that doesn't mean it's invulnerable or like armor or something. Jeez, These are two of my rescue snakes.

Jasper has a huge scar along his underside from the kick of a rabbit...not to mention numerous bite marks and messed up scales from rats.




Ribs (so called because he was 1.5lbs at 4 feet in length and almost dead from dehydration and starvation) has a scarred over nostril...though you can't see it very well here, though you can see the tail scar.




Just really unnecessary. If we don't have the time to watch our animals and make sure they are safe and not getting "Blemmishes" then we just shouldn't own the animal. If we have so many we can't make the time? Same thing.

These may be extreme cases...though I have seen and heard of worse...but WHY risk it? Why? Because it's easier for us, or we're lazy? *snort* that's just wrong.

I am fine with live if you beat it on the head, and WATCH your snake. Whatever is cheaper for you, fine, but i cringe when i hear all these people saying they have double figure #'s of snakes and they just throw food in there.

[WingedWolfPsion]

I've seen a rat attack a snake when introduced to a bin exactly once, in 4 years of feeding ball pythons.
In the vast majority of cases, a rat will not actually go after a snake unless it's left alone with the snake for hours. I drop rats in, observe briefly, and close the bin. I come back through and remove all of the uneaten rodents 10 minutes later. Some of my snakes absolutely will not eat if I have the bin open. What is ideal isn't always practical. I have some snakes that will eat anything you hand to them--FT off tongs, off the cage floor, live, whatever--as soon as it hits the bin, they grab it. Other snakes need privacy, and a bit longer to make up their mind.

It's absolutely not safe to leave live rodents in with snakes for long periods of time, but short periods of time aren't too terribly likely to result in anything drastic happening, other than an eaten rodent.

Even FT is not 100% safe, you know. Rodents have long, sharp teeth, and there have been rare incidents...but far more than just one...where snakes have died after eating because those teeth perforated their esophagus. We can't protect them from everything.

Ideally, they eat FT...but it's better for them to eat something, than to be offered FT and refuse more often than not. Some snakes just don't accept it well.

I've had more snakes find creative ways to minorly injure themselves on water bowls than I have seen injured by rodents.

[Missy King]

Some of my snakes absolutely will not eat if I have the bin open. What is ideal isn't always practical. I have some snakes that will eat anything you hand to them--FT off tongs, off the cage floor, live, whatever--as soon as it hits the bin, they grab it. Other snakes need privacy, and a bit longer to make up their mind.

Little brats *lol* and understood. Case by case is of course realistic.

It's absolutely not safe to leave live rodents in with snakes for long periods of time, but short periods of time aren't too terribly likely to result in anything drastic happening, other than an eaten rodent.

Indeed! I just hope people realize that. I just got the impression that people just throw one in, and that's it. Until next feeding. They're too busy to worry about it, kind of thing. I really hope that's not the case for anyone.

Even FT is not 100% safe, you know. Rodents have long, sharp teeth, and there have been rare incidents...but far more than just one...where snakes have died after eating because those teeth perforated their esophagus. We can't protect them from everything.

That is a fact! I must admit, not too long ago I heard of this happening to a snake. I got all paranoid. Unless i sit there pulling rat teeth though, what am I going to do about it? I can clip toenails...or at least in our case we soak our meals until they thaw, and then warm, so i'm sure the keratin in then nails soften...so i don't usually cut them down. But teeth...if they're going to get hurt sometimes, they just are. I try to mother and protect them as much as i can, though *lol*

Ideally, they eat FT...but it's better for them to eat something, than to be offered FT and refuse more often than not. Some snakes just don't accept it well.

Yup. But, that doesn't mean i'm not going to keep trying, or not bop it in the head, or freeze it if it dies, and try to refeed anyway *lol* I guess i just want to hear that it's worth the time, for people to take that little extra step. I know i'm not going to change anyone's mind, but maybe they'll just think about things a little differently sometimes. Hey, prevention is the first cure.

I've had more snakes find creative ways to minorly injure themselves on water bowls than I have seen injured by rodents.

LOL That is true. I do realize i'm putting extreme cases out there. My problem is not even really live food...it's the attitude, and lack of enthusiasim i see sometimes.

Anyway...One last question I forgot about! If you feed live...what do you do about fleas?? I'm going to be treating a snake next week (after the good'ol paycheck) for tapeworms. I've read that they get these, from the fleas ingested along with live food.

Thoughts?