Really weird baby...

[reptilegirl07]

If your dog was born with worms, there's a good chance all his littermates had worms as well...
He was not born with worms. He was abused and was flea infested. The worms came from the flea infestation. When a dog is infested with fleas, it may eat fleas, which causes tape worm infestations.


In this case none if Miami's other ASF's looked sick. Not to mention it was born funny looking.

Even dog's that are born with worms or develop them young still apear normal physically. I'm sure he got all the nutrients it needed, he just wasn't meant to grow.

I'd rather go by what my vet said, since, after all, she is a vet and did go through vet school. That being the case, he DID NOT grow normally, and DID NOT get all the nutrients that he needed. He WAS meant to grow and not until his body fully developed did he grow the way he was supposed to be growing. Again, silly vets, what do they know... right...


Same thing with people who have dwarvism, they can eat all they want but they're not growing.

Same with adult people. They can eat all they want, but they aren't going to grow larger, just fatter... What's your point? And do people with dwarvism fail to thrive? Are they sickly their entire lives? I'm honestly asking this question because I don't know.

Unfortunately we do not know why this poor little guy was born like that, all we can say is he was sick and after given a second chance, he still couldn't make it. Just because he stopped growing, we can't automatically assume COD was starvation. So unless someone wants to do a biopsy on him, just give it rest already.
With all due respect, if you don't like the conversation, you don't have to be in it And, as my post stated, that's "probably" what happened here. Probably doesn't mean definitely. I gave my 2c

[Rhasputin]

'Wasn't meant to grow' is not a scientific, or medical term. . .

When something is eating, and not growing, it's called starvation.

[Alexandra V]

The whole while reading this thread I was telling myself I wouldn't get involved.

So, without trying to beat the dead horse, and without choosing sides, I say this: firstly, the ordeal is over, the ASF has been fed off, and is not suffering (whether it was or not in life is unknown).

Why do I say unknown? Because while we can speculate that it was not growing properly and was born with an eye issue, the rat never full out said that it was in pain.

While we can guess that maybe it was having a hard time, we will never know for sure. For instance (I know it's not a rat, just bear with me) people with mental disabilities may never know they aren't normal, and many can fulfill an average lifespan if they're taken care of properly. The ASF may not have been suffering and while it didn't develop like the rest, it may have had an OK life while it was alive. Then again, it might not have, but we will never know. Perhaps it would have remained small but been alright otherwise. Perhaps not. Either way, it's over now.

Lastly, just as speculation, this reminds me a lot of primordial dwarfism in humans. Primordial dwarves are extremely small and remain extremely small, and generally don't develop properly and have a tendency to die from that fact or a brain issue that has been found to be linked to it. Sorry, just thinking out loud there.

[TheSnakeEye]

With all due respect, if you don't like the conversation, you don't have to be in it And, as my post stated, that's "probably" what happened here. Probably doesn't mean definitely. I gave my 2c

Same goes to you , if you didn't like how he kept the rat alive, you could have avoided the thread. As for your other comments, I am not going to reply, because it will lead to a never-ending-back-and-forth of stupidity. It's already getting off topic..

'Wasn't meant to grow' is not a scientific, or medical term. . .

When something is eating, and not growing, it's called starvation.

Sorry, I dropped out of med-school before they taught us the proper terminology ... Funny thing I could have swore this was a ball python forum and not a science forum. Sorry Dr.

But since you feel that way, you should definitely find a way to change "dwarf" and "runts" to starved. Since apparently that's the definition of it.

[TheSnakeEye]

The whole while reading this thread I was telling myself I wouldn't get involved.

So, without trying to beat the dead horse, and without choosing sides, I say this: firstly, the ordeal is over, the ASF has been fed off, and is not suffering (whether it was or not in life is unknown).

Why do I say unknown? Because while we can speculate that it was not growing properly and was born with an eye issue, the rat never full out said that it was in pain.

While we can guess that maybe it was having a hard time, we will never know for sure. For instance (I know it's not a rat, just bear with me) people with mental disabilities may never know they aren't normal, and many can fulfill an average lifespan if they're taken care of properly. The ASF may not have been suffering and while it didn't develop like the rest, it may have had an OK life while it was alive. Then again, it might not have, but we will never know. Perhaps it would have remained small but been alright otherwise. Perhaps not. Either way, it's over now.

Lastly, just as speculation, this reminds me a lot of primordial dwarfism in humans. Primordial dwarves are extremely small and remain extremely small, and generally don't develop properly and have a tendency to die from that fact or a brain issue that has been found to be linked to it. Sorry, just thinking out loud there.

THIS! No one here knows what was wrong with it, OP did a good job at trying instead of immediately feeding it off. What bothers me is that some people think they are experts and are judges as to what should happen to the animals life.

But you hit the nail on the head, no one knows if it was starving, no one knows if it wasn't.

[Rhasputin]

Sorry, I dropped out of med-school before they taught us the proper terminology ... Funny thing I could have swore this was a ball python forum and not a science forum. Sorry Dr.

But since you feel that way, you should definitely find a way to change "dwarf" and "runts" to starved. Since apparently that's the definition of it.

Wow. Just wow. This post speaks for itself.
You are not interested in the truth.

[RobNJ]

It did not die of starvation, it died from being fed

I need to find some of these rats...sure would cut back on the cost of raising feeders.

[Lupe]

I believe it's just in some peoples nature to see what will happen in situations like this. Yes there was something wrong wit the animal, but there are severely deformed balls that people have chose to keep alive where others would have just culled them. The ball with no eyes or the Miracle Ball are what jump to mind.
Miracle Ball: http://ballpython.ca/miracle.html
In my personal opinion (everyone is entitled to one) there was nothing wrong with seeing if the little guy would live or not.

[EvergladesExotics]

Just because it was eating, doesn't mean it wasn't starving. If it was eating, and not growing that is by definition starving. . . Egapal explained it very clearly.
It WAS NOT GROWING, it's body was STARVING FOR NUTRITION. And it would have DIED no matter what.

It's greatly disturbing to me that you don't understand this.

Have you not looked at the pictures? It grew a considerable ammount in just four days. It continued to grow and do well, but not enough to where I felt it was better to keep it versus feeding it off. You do not know that it would have died no matter what and neither do I. Why? Because it was a feeder animal and was used for it's intended purpose. It grew steadily, yet slowly, but not fast enough for my comfort. Putting words in BIG BOLD LETTERS TOGETHER just lends to the fact that you still have no basis for your arguement so you try to make yourself sound more important by becoming louder. I have done nothing but respect and consider your opinion this entire time, wish I could say the same for some others.

Either way all, it has been made into poo but by some peoples account is probably still suffering. What I would like to know is how you all feel about my dwarf leopard gecko Itzy Bitzy Ditzy? lol

[zn394]

I had what some of you might call a "failure to thrive" rat. As a weanling it was maybe a third the size of its litter mates and I did think of culling it.

But it was eating and very active, just as Miami described their baby asf. So I decided to let it stay with its littermates.

By the time its littermates were smalls, it was still about the size of a 4 week old rat.

Today? She and her 2 day old litter of 12 babies are doing just fine!

Thank you for giving the less-than-perfect baby a chance Miami.