venomoid?

[Maixx]

The problem with regulations, is that there has to be a government body to set, and enforce the regulations or permits. In our current economical situation of bankrupt local and state governments, this is not going to happen. With every mistake or irresponsible action made by reptile keepers being exaggerated by the AR activists and the media we loose our rights.
It's getting ugly, and not looking good for herp keepers, when its easiest for a bankrupt government to say "banned" over trying to set up a dept of whatever so we can keep our herps.

Venomous are by far the most dangerous to keep, even the best keepers can make a mistake. When they do, it hurts us all.

[mr.spooky]

i have to agree with Denial on this... i persionaly dont think that anyone should be able to tell me what to do in my own house.. i dont know the numbers,, but im sure that more people die each year by livestock than they do by snakes.. and im not hearing nobody hollerin " shut down the rodeos".
but the point that i was trying to get across is that it your going to keep these, you darn well better know the consiquences.... take coppers for example, when i had them, i knew how to handle them, and i knew what and what not to do,,,, i also knew that if i was to get bit,, chances were that i wasent going to die, or be disfigured... now,, getting back to the EDB,,, the times that i have found them, i have been field herping,, i was, and am confident that i know how to handle them,,, but i also know that the consiquences of getting bit are far greater. so the first time that i hooked one, was the first time that i realised what i was doing, and the real dangers..
will i hook one again,,, hell yes. but i am also mature enough to say that they make me a little more nervous than copperheads or cottonmouths.
with age comes wisdom.. im not claming that im wise or anything,,,but i am claiming that im alot wiser now than when i was in my 20's..
spooky

[zeion97]

I understand where your coming from and do agree it "could" happen but if done right the chances are very slim. And the whole law thing I believe you should be 18 and show some type of knowledge and caging for the animal but other then that nothing should stop the private keeping of venomous snakes. Its easy for someone who has not kept these animals to imagine the dangers that come with them. And yes they are somewhat different then other snakes they can possibly kill you but when kept right theres really not that much of a difference. This is one reason the WHOLE exotic industry is so screwed with all these laws. Because we bicker inside the industry with what everyone else keeps. We cant get along enough with each other about what we want to keep so how the heck can we fight a government on what we can and can not keep? We have small snake keepers who could care less about big snake keepers and we have big snake keepers that could care less about venomous keepers. When in reality we should all care for everyone and try to make "reasonable" regulations preferably written by someone who has an idea of what they are talking about. Instead of out right bans that we have been getting.

You basically hit everything I meant. I wasn't trying to say we shouldn't own them and yes I apologize. I should have worded my reply better. What I was leaning more towards was when kids or adult go out and by like a diamond back just Because it looks cool, then lets say something happens to them. The Reptile community gets blamed as whole and not one keeper who was not responsible. I apologize for my wording, I really do. And you also added more on to What I said. I seem to like to talk about Burmese a lot... but in Florida it's the same thing, with all the restrictions on large snakes Because of a few owners. (Please don't start a argument here about this...) and yes, I agree again, unless we all ban together and fight for our rights not alone, but as a community we have little to no chance to stop all the bans we receive. Again, I apologize. And I hope I don't start a fight for my mis-wording, all I was trying to say was it could happen.

[zeion97]

i have to agree with Denial on this... i persionaly dont think that anyone should be able to tell me what to do in my own house.. i dont know the numbers,, but im sure that more people die each year by livestock than they do by snakes.. and im not hearing nobody hollerin " shut down the rodeos".
but the point that i was trying to get across is that it your going to keep these, you darn well better know the consiquences.... take coppers for example, when i had them, i knew how to handle them, and i knew what and what not to do,,,, i also knew that if i was to get bit,, chances were that i wasent going to die, or be disfigured... now,, getting back to the EDB,,, the times that i have found them, i have been field herping,, i was, and am confident that i know how to handle them,,, but i also know that the consiquences of getting bit are far greater. so the first time that i hooked one, was the first time that i realised what i was doing, and the real dangers..
will i hook one again,,, hell yes. but i am also mature enough to say that they make me a little more nervous than copperheads or cottonmouths.
with age comes wisdom.. im not claming that im wise or anything,,,but i am claiming that im alot wiser now than when i was in my 20's..
spooky

Again, I apologize, I should have chosen my words ALOT better. When I meant laws, I was meaning what Daniel said, not they should be banded or someone not allowed. It just seems like were allied to buy them without a word then when something happens it's the community's fault an not a keeper. It's just like the law in IL.. why should we be allowed to purchase Burns, reticulated or even rock pythons when they're illegal once they hit 15 feet. It's like someone says to a venomous keeper, "okay, you can keep this rattlesnake til it's mature, then you have to put it down or take it out of state" the Reptile community as a whole needs to be together, not just for rights on what once person wants, but for every keeper, big and small. A lot of us believe in the Same things, we just use different ways of expression so it seems like we're always at each others throat. (I'm using this analogy as a statement referring to one person. Wanting to keep balls, another RTB'S and even another hots, in the end though, they're al exotics and all reptiles, well most. Lol) again Iu apologize though.

[Denial]

As a community we have every chance to fight these bans. We are a strong community if we stand together. Remember hr 669? All those letters....But its the keepers that sit around thinking it will be ok because other keepers will fight that mess us up. We all need to fight and not just one and not just ones that are in our state. We need to fight them all together as a community. If that happened you would never see anything banned. Politicians are terrified of not getting your vote and the more keepers that speak out the bigger a difference that number looks to them.

[Wh00h0069]

If I were going to own hots, I would first start with venomoids. I saw a couple venomoids in person while touring NERD's facility.

[jason_ladouceur]

Venomous are by far the most dangerous to keep, even the best keepers can make a mistake. When they do, it hurts us all.

Don’t kid yourself. Although there of course a very real danger present with keeping Hot’s, but giant constrictors can be as or more dangerous as any hot. With the exception of just a handful of very large Hots a skilled keeper should be able to handle them safely without any assistance. The same cannot be said of the giants, I in fact have an old friend out west that kept a very large female retic. He made a mistake with her a suffered a nasty bite followed by constriction. Fortunately he had someone there as he should have to help him and they managed to get her off of him, but not before she cracked one of his ribs. I remember another case years ago where a keeper was distracted during feeding of a large retic and she got his hand instead of the rabbit. He jerked his hand away resulting in his hand being almost completely de-gloved. He of course required major reconstructive surgery and months of rehabilitation.

[wilomn]

Don’t kid yourself. Although there of course a very real danger present with keeping Hot’s, but giant constrictors can be as or more dangerous as any hot. With the exception of just a handful of very large Hots a skilled keeper should be able to handle them safely without any assistance. The same cannot be said of the giants, I in fact have an old friend out west that kept a very large female retic. He made a mistake with her a suffered a nasty bite followed by constriction. Fortunately he had someone there as he should have to help him and they managed to get her off of him, but not before she cracked one of his ribs. I remember another case years ago where a keeper was distracted during feeding of a large retic and she got his hand instead of the rabbit. He jerked his hand away resulting in his hand being almost completely de-gloved. He of course required major reconstructive surgery and months of rehabilitation.

If he's that easily distracted it's probably a good thing he doesn't keep hots.

An animal who can kill you with a single bite, bringing death twice to your inattentive pal, to me, is far more dangerous than one who may or may not feel like trying to eat me if I, me, not the snake, make a mistake.

[jason_ladouceur]

If he's that easily distracted it's probably a good thing he doesn't keep hots.

An animal who can kill you with a single bite, bringing death twice to your inattentive pal, to me, is far more dangerous than one who may or may not feel like trying to eat me if I, me, not the snake, make a mistake.

Just to be clear these 2 incidents I mentioned happened to 2 separate keepers. And although yes any Hot is capable of delivering a potentially deadly bite, very few have a 8 or 10 foot strike range and with the exception of a case of anaphylaxis to my knowledge there is no venomous animal capable of killing a human in a matter of minutes. And although any envenomation is a life threatening situation at least there is a potential treatment available for most Hot snake bites. To my knowledge there is no way to reverse the affects of constriction. I in no way intend to down play the risk surrounding keeping Hots, I just want to remind people that there are plenty of potential hazards attached to the keeping of many other types of reptiles that all too often are regarded as “safe” by the reptile community.

[zeion97]

Just to be clear these 2 incidents I mentioned happened to 2 separate keepers. And although yes any Hot is capable of delivering a potentially deadly bite, very few have a 8 or 10 foot strike range and with the exception of a case of anaphylaxis to my knowledge there is no venomous animal capable of killing a human in a matter of minutes. And although any envenomation is a life threatening situation at least there is a potential treatment available for most Hot snake bites. To my knowledge there is no way to reverse the affects of constriction. I in no way intend to down play the risk surrounding keeping Hots, I just want to remind people that there are plenty of potential hazards attached to the keeping of many other types of reptiles that all too often are regarded as “safe” by the reptile community.

That's true, most Burmese and even RTB's that are docile get the "well they can't hurt a fly" when the truth is they can kill you, and it can happen.. every animal has its risk even cats or dogs. And yes, it's true venomous can be worked with alone, and large constrictors need multiple people to be worked with safely. And I will say, I have a more temperamental 5 foot male Burmese, and I never work with him alone. (Especially after been bit, and having my arm constricted) needless to say none of these animals should be "banded" just Because they're dangerous.. though on a lighter note... I don't believe a 8 year old kid who has no experience, and no one in there family has experience should own a large constrictor or Even a hot.