Rats Sneezing/Dying-Vet Visit Results-Going Forward-NEED HELP

[PitOnTheProwl]

Very interesting, I have already learned something new today

[chondrogal]

Just recently started watching the rat forum here so hope this hasn't already been shared a hundred times, but.... http://ratguide.com/ is an INCREDIBLE site with the most comprehensive health/pet owning guide for rat owners. The search function works great too.

Anyways, there are a few viruses that once an exposure happens can be devastating for rat colonies. We currently have an outbreak of one of those viruses hitting a well known rattery here in Florida, Sendai virus (SDA is another) and results of serology are not yet in but expected soon. I hope your colony clears up. Quarantine for any new rats coming in to a colony is important whether they are for feeders or pets to help prevent spread of disease. The info on Myco already shared here in this thread is pretty spot on. Myco itself isn't usually a problem, but when combined with other viral or bacterial outbreaks it can really complicate the situation and make treating more difficult.

[JohnNJ]

Another point of clarification - I am talking about bacteria (mycoplasma) which can be treated successfully with antibiotics such as Baytril, Doxy and Tylan. A virus (Sendai, SDA, Parvo, Corona) is typically not treated with antibiotics. Rats that survive a virus; ie: their immune system keeps it at bay, can still be carriers. Whole colonies could be wiped out by a virus but most recover from bacteria if treated quickly. It's serious enough that rat groups track viral outbreaks around the country

All of us have bacteria and viruses in our bodies every day. They only cause a problem when our immune system is weakened. Same with rats except that they have a higher metabolism which allows the illness to progress at a much faster rate. That coupled with their instinct to hide their illness is often fatal.

Stress is big factor in lowering resistance to germs. Stress can occur by quick changes in temperature, ammonia buildup, change in diet, over breeding, etc. I would guess that cleaning day is stressfull for some rats. Keeping their environment within a set range of values will help to reduce stress levels.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Knock on wood after breeding several thousands of rats each year for the past 4 years I never had any URI in my colony even though winter temps go as low as 48 degrees.

The keys to me are

#1 start a colony with healthy stocks preferably someone breeding rat not pet store rats.
#2 Quarantine just like snakes new blood must be quarantined.
#3 Once you have a strong well established colony limit bringing in new blood, line breed your best genes
#4 Husbandry do not let ammonia build up, clean at least once a week allow for proper ventilation and invest in an exhaust fan

If it was me I would cull any rats in the tubs and in the rack especially more so if you use a watering system.

Not sure how big your colony is and what the impact would be on your production but I would like consider starting from scratch as well making sure everything has been bleached including water line if you use a watering system.

[wolfy-hound]

I just took a sick male in to the vet. Left after a Xray(to confirm pneumonia/chest congestion) and the baytril/doxie meds. When I got home, I found the other male who was acting sick already dead.

Understand, I took the one rat in to be diagnosed so I could treat the colony if it spreads, not to treat a single rat. But at this point, since the other truly ill rat died, I'm treating only him in a bin by himself. I though there were 4 ill rats, but I'm not finding any rats that act ill now. I did have one male die on sunday which is when I noticed the rats looking ill.

Two major questions...
FIrst, they gave me ORAL meds, and getting the meds into the rat's mouth is near impossible. He said not to put it into the water, as dosing wouldn't be specific. Any easier way to get meds into rats?

Second, without knowing EXACTLY which thing caused the RI, how contagious could it be? Is there any way to know? Is it probably something all rats have, but the stressed/old rats fall to it? Should I plan on eliminating more rats even if they look healthy? Right now I don't have replacement breeders, so I'm hoping I don't have to.

[jasbus]

I'll put my .02 in, and hope not to start a war with people that are "against pet stores"....
First off, don't lump all pet stores together. Most pet stores are just fine. Just like most puppy breeders are just fine... A few bad apples in every barrel. It's insulting when you lump mom and pop shops with the big chain stores that hide the sick animals in the back. I find it insulting that a chain store will sell you a snake, but not a rodent to feed it, unless it's F/T. give me a break...
There are a lot of people like me, breed rodents, and sell them to many sources, including chain pet stores, but I also have a pet store myself. ALL RATS HAVE BACTERIAL INFECTION. Period. Just like all captive Bearded Dragons have Coccidia. The problem comes with stress, mainly from poor husbandry. It flares up because of stress, and takes over the respiratory system, causing myco or URI. If you go to a store, and they sell you a rat(s) that are covered in urine, you may want to take your business elsewhere... They obviously don't clean often enough. Rats are generally clean animals, but if their enclosure is so soiled that they can't get clean, then they run into the possibility of getting sick, same as any animal.
Now then, that is off my chest...
Sorry, it just urks me when people generalize.

I've been raising rodents for 20-25 years, and yes, I've had my share of illness in colonies.
John, you did what was right, you consulted a vet, you paid for his experience. Most people won't put out that much money for a feeder or even a pet. I also think you did the right thing by culling, I may not have culled tubmates, but any sick rat should be quarantined or culled.
Personally, I use Baytril with good results, but if it's not helping after 7 treatments(14days), I usually just cull the rat, mainly just for the cost. I've been very lucky over the years, and never had a bad flare up, but I won't lie and say it doesn't happen occasionally.
And, I introduce new blood in very often.... I line breed my rodents, but I also like to bring in new blood from friends. Usually I buy weaned rats and grow them up, that's the quarantine period for me...

[JohnNJ]

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

For your first question - baytril and doxy must be administered individually. Dosage is by weight. I put Tylan in the water for all of the breeders.

The two rats I have on baytril and doxy are pets and submit to handling and dosing. I would not try it with the breeders.

For your second question - you should re-read the whole thread which should give you enough info to decide how to proceed.

Let us know what happens.

[wolfy-hound]

Thanks!I appreciate the help. The dosing is just a pain, but I'll do my bestest. If I can tube feed a hatchling python, I'm sure I can figure out dosing a breeder rat.

I'll just watch for any illness for now, and isolate any sick rats. Right now, I've checked a couple times and still don't see any other ill rats, just the one.

[chondrogal]

Wolfy, have found a wonderful way to get liquid meds down our rats when needed. We use perhaps a 1/4 teaspoon of Half & Half cream and mix the meds in. If they've got any appetite at all they usually dive in and it's gone.

These viruses are killer, what they are basically doing is weakening the immune systems enough so that their latent bacteria get a chance to get a hold and cause pneumonia (usually) which is then treated with Doxy/Baytril or whatever your vets prescribe.

Our recent Sendai outbreak in FL started with 2 very healthy looking rats from Petco in Orlando. The rats were almost 2 weeks into their new home when all hell broke loose and rats started getting very sick and dieing..... quickly. They have treated whole colonies (pet, not feeder colonies so not generally as large as feeder breeders) with antibiotic concoction and nebulizers as needed.

[wolfy-hound]

Thanks!! I will pick up some half-and-half!!

The idea of infecting any of my animals freaks me out. I'm paranoid about the snakes and usually won't touch a snake outside of home without disinfectant(and not that hand sanitizer). I did bring in some rats, but these are the older breeders I got first, and they weren't in great shape when I got them. They've improved SO much with a great diet, clean cages, etc. Hopefully whatever this is, passes quickly and doesn't turn into anything huge. I'd hate to end up culling everything and starting over. That would set me back months.