Attention breeders in Florida...

[anatess]

Cats and dogs etc etc are not "captive wildlife" but domestic pets. They are covered under other stuff. This is specifically "captive wildlife" licenses. There's a listing of species NOT covered under the "captive wildlife" designation.

*TAKEN FROM THE MYFWC.COM SITE*
The following species do not require a permit for personal possession as long as no other Rule or Statute applies. Examples include, but are not limited to, rules for Threatened or Endangered Species:

a.Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected species that are NOT listed as endangered, threatened, species of special concern, conditional reptiles, or otherwise regulated)
b.Gerbils, hedgehogs
c.Honey possums, sugar gliders
d.Shell parakeets
e.Rats and mice
f.Canaries
g.Moles; shrews
h.Rabbits
i.Squirrels; chipmunks
j.Ferrets (domestic; European)
k.Lovebirds
l.Guinea pigs
m.Cockatiels
n.Hamsters
o.Parrots
p.Finches
q.Myna birds
r.Toucans
s.Doves: ringed, ruddy, and diamond
t.Button quail
u.Prairie dogs
v.Chinchillas
Note: Camels, llamas, wild horses, jungle fowl, common guinea fowl and peafowl are considered domestic/domesticated species and do not require a permit. Ratites and bison possessed for farming purposes do not require a permit.

*BREAK*
A permit is required for personal possession, exhibition or sale of Class III wildlife. Class III wildlife are all species not listed as Class I or Class II; and not among those species that are specifically listed as not requiring a permit for personal possession in rule 68A-6.0022, FAC.

There is no formal list of Class III species. You must check the lists of Class I, Class II, and species not requiring a permit to determine if an animal in question is a Class III species.

*END QUOTED SECTION*

Wolfy, Mike... Ball Pythons are not Class III because they are "a.Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected species that are NOT listed as endangered, threatened, species of special concern, conditional reptiles, or otherwise regulated)".

I cannot find any regulation that specifies Ball Pythons as "otherwise regulated" nor "species of special concern" nor "protected status".

[anatess]

As far as Fish and Wildlife I have NO idea why they showed upto the OP's property to inspect UNLESS they thought perhaps he had Berms or other "reptiles requiring a permit".

I'm beginning to think that somebody may have ratted him out. Maybe a neighbor hoping to get his lot confiscated? Or something like that?

[hross]

I assume mike had a non advertised sale. They came looking for a permit based on selling of reptiles, not possession.

You can own your ball pythons without a license, but you can not sell them without a class 3 permit for sale or exhibit. I can not buy reptiles from anyone in florida without a permit. Yes, people probably skirt the law at shows, but it does not make it legal.

I know the fish and wild life site is confusing, and seemingly provides loopholes. But, they very much enforce the sale of reptiles. Regardless if it is your pet or a few extra babies that you take to a pet shop. I am not trying to preach. I just would hate for someone to get arrested for not knowing/ understanding the law. I noticed several published stings in the tampa area last year. And, the outcomes were court bound; not nearly as lucky as Mike (i am sure politeness and respect went a long way for you)
thanks
howard

[anatess]

I assume mike had a non advertised sale. They came looking for a permit based on selling of reptiles, not possession.

You can own your ball pythons without a license, but you can not sell them without a class 3 permit for sale or exhibit. I can not buy reptiles from anyone in florida without a permit. Yes, people probably skirt the law at shows, but it does not make it legal.

I know the fish and wild life site is confusing, and seemingly provides loopholes. But, they very much enforce the sale of reptiles. Regardless if it is your pet or a few extra babies that you take to a pet shop. I am not trying to preach. I just would hate for someone to get arrested for not knowing/ understanding the law. I noticed several published stings in the tampa area last year. And, the outcomes were court bound; not nearly as lucky as Mike (i am sure politeness and respect went a long way for you)
thanks
howard

Howard, if you can please show us the regulation that classifies Ball Python as a Class III reptile... I've been looking and I can't find it. Help? (see my previous posts above).

[sgath92]

I am glad that they're taking more interest in who owns/ sells herps without completely banning the animals. I'd rather see a few responsible people pay a fine for their animals than a bunch of idiotsrunning around unchecked and neglecting their snakes.

They are completely banning animals, just not BPs [yet].

FL is largely responsible for all the various attempts to get a federal ban on the "large 9"

[hross]

i completely understand. i do not have the legislation, and i noticed the same what "seems" to be obvious exception years ago. I have been permitted for about 12 years now, and do not believe the fwcc site info is complete or fully accurate (at least confusing). At Daytona last year i noticed fwcc officers enforcing a lot of new regulations. But, to sell ANY reptile the answer has been the same for over a decade. If you call fwcc, I am sure the officer in charge of sending the permit applications can answer your questions in the detail you request.

[anatess]

i completely understand. i do not have the legislation, and i noticed the same what "seems" to be obvious exception years ago. I have been permitted for about 12 years now, and do not believe the fwcc site info is complete or fully accurate (at least confusing). At Daytona last year i noticed fwcc officers enforcing a lot of new regulations. But, to sell ANY reptile the answer has been the same for over a decade. If you call fwcc, I am sure the officer in charge of sending the permit applications can answer your questions in the detail you request.

I have done that - called FWC and sent an email and sent a question through the website. They haven't replied yet. I also left a voicemail with my Congresman but no reply yet on that either.

I'm actually not only looking in FWC. I'm going straight to the FAC. So, those who have experience, if you can please just give me the regulation number that would really help me out lots.

[aalomon]

I have a few other questions from looking at the application.

1. Does this mean there is absolutely NO hobby breeding in Florida? Looking at the license, it also looks like you need a business license to fill it out properly...

2. On the species list do you have to list all the class 3 reptiles you own, even if you do not plan on breeding or selling them. I know its a good idea, but my question is if thats that the application is specifically asking for.

3. (semi joke question) How are you supposed to list all the species in that little box? Do you attach something else to the back?

[Aes_Sidhe]

Wolfy, Mike... Ball Pythons are not Class III because they are "a.Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected species that are NOT listed as endangered, threatened, species of special concern, conditional reptiles, or otherwise regulated)".

I cannot find any regulation that specifies Ball Pythons as "otherwise regulated" nor "species of special concern" nor "protected status".

A permit is required for personal possession, exhibition or sale of Class III wildlife. Class III wildlife are all species not listed as Class I or Class II; and not among those species that are specifically listed as not requiring a permit for personal possession in rule 68A-6.0022, FAC.

There is no formal list of Class III species. You must check the lists of Class I, Class II, and species not requiring a permit to determine if an animal in question is a Class III species. Florida residents 16 years of age and older may apply for permit to possess, exhibit or sell Class III wildlife.

Note: A special permit is needed to import leopard tortoises (Geochelone pardalis), African spurred tortoises (G. sulcata) or Bell's hingeback tortoises (Kinixys belliana) from another state.

and there is 68A-6.0022, what they telling You about and was Posted by Wolfy what exclude animals from animals You dont need have permit for POSSESSION but You still Need category III LICENSE is You want to SELL ANY OF THIS ANIMAL :

The following species do not require a permit for personal POSSESSION as long as no other Rule or Statute applies. Examples include, but are not limited to, rules for Threatened or Endangered Species:

a.Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected species that are NOT listed as endangered, threatened, species of special concern, conditional reptiles, or otherwise regulated)
b.Gerbils, hedgehogs
c.Honey possums, sugar gliders
d.Shell parakeets
e.Rats and mice
f.Canaries
g.Moles; shrews
h.Rabbits
i.Squirrels; chipmunks
j.Ferrets (domestic; European)
k.Lovebirds
l.Guinea pigs
m.Cockatiels
n.Hamsters
o.Parrots
p.Finches
q.Myna birds
r.Toucans
s.Doves: ringed, ruddy, and diamond
t.Button quail
u.Prairie dogs
v.Chinchillas
Note: Camels, llamas, wild horses, jungle fowl, common guinea fowl and peafowl are considered domestic/domesticated species and do not require a permit. Ratites and bison possessed for farming purposes do not require a permit.

SO SUMMARY You Don't need permit for POSSESSION of ball pythons because they fall in to Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected species that are NOT listed as endangered, threatened, species of special concern, conditional reptiles, or otherwise regulated) BUT YOU NEED THAT PERMIT IF YOU WANT TO SELL YOUR BALL PYTHON.... same as You need that permit if You want to sell your Hamster, Guinea Pig, Parakeet, or even Beta Fish

Hope that will Clear everything....

[anatess]

A permit is required for personal possession, exhibition or sale of Class III wildlife. Class III wildlife are all species not listed as Class I or Class II; and not among those species that are specifically listed as not requiring a permit for personal possession in rule 68A-6.0022, FAC.

There is no formal list of Class III species. You must check the lists of Class I, Class II, and species not requiring a permit to determine if an animal in question is a Class III species. Florida residents 16 years of age and older may apply for permit to possess, exhibit or sell Class III wildlife.

Note: A special permit is needed to import leopard tortoises (Geochelone pardalis), African spurred tortoises (G. sulcata) or Bell's hingeback tortoises (Kinixys belliana) from another state.

and there is 68A-6.0022, what they telling You about and was Posted by Wolfy what exclude animals from animals You dont need have permit for POSSESSION but You still Need category III LICENSE is You want to SELL ANY OF THIS ANIMAL :

The following species do not require a permit for personal POSSESSION as long as no other Rule or Statute applies. Examples include, but are not limited to, rules for Threatened or Endangered Species:

a.Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected species that are NOT listed as endangered, threatened, species of special concern, conditional reptiles, or otherwise regulated)
b.Gerbils, hedgehogs
c.Honey possums, sugar gliders
d.Shell parakeets
e.Rats and mice
f.Canaries
g.Moles; shrews
h.Rabbits
i.Squirrels; chipmunks
j.Ferrets (domestic; European)
k.Lovebirds
l.Guinea pigs
m.Cockatiels
n.Hamsters
o.Parrots
p.Finches
q.Myna birds
r.Toucans
s.Doves: ringed, ruddy, and diamond
t.Button quail
u.Prairie dogs
v.Chinchillas
Note: Camels, llamas, wild horses, jungle fowl, common guinea fowl and peafowl are considered domestic/domesticated species and do not require a permit. Ratites and bison possessed for farming purposes do not require a permit.

SO SUMMARY You Don't need permit for POSSESSION of ball pythons because they fall in to Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected species that are NOT listed as endangered, threatened, species of special concern, conditional reptiles, or otherwise regulated) BUT YOU NEED THAT PERMIT IF YOU WANT TO SELL YOUR BALL PYTHON.... same as You need that permit if You want to sell your Hamster, Guinea Pig, Parakeet, or even Beta Fish

Hope that will Clear everything....

NO. It doesn't clear everything...

Class III wildlife are all species not listed as Class I or Class II; and not among those species that are specifically listed as not requiring a permit for personal possession in rule 68A-6.0022, FAC.

"AND NOT AMONG THOSE SPECIES IN THE PERSONAL POSESSION LIST" makes a Ball Python NOT a Class III reptile. In contrast, an Eastern Indigo IS a Class III reptile by virtue of its protection status.

So, that regulation you are quoting does not specify that you require a PERMIT to SELL a non-Class III reptile. There will be a different regulation stating the permit requirement for the SALE of non-Class III, non-domesticated wildlife. That's what we are trying to find.