Need help with WC Ghana baby!!

[tikigator]

Hey everyone! Before I get started on the issue I just want to say if anyone would rather PM or email me with answers or advice that would be perfectly fine. And I also want to say, before I start, that this is a rescue case that I have chosen to try to take on and try to rehabilitate...I am asking for advice and guidance and suggestions as to how to better help this little girl....please do not tell me she needs to be put down. I am very aware of her current condition and I want to give her a fair chance....if her condition starts to decline, or she does not make any obvious improvements, I will make the decision to humanly euthanize...but I just want to make it clear I want to try to save her, so I ask that you only post helpful advice.

I was over the on the east coast of FL at an import facility and happened to come across a BP who looks to be a morph however her condition was so poor they offered to let me take her for free and give her a chance since she obviously would have a better chance getting medical care than staying longer at the facility. I am unsure of how old she is....a close friend who owns a reptile store locally here thinks she is approx 4 months (as she is obviously a baby, yet it does take a considerable amount of time for a BP to decline in health to this condition (ie: this did not happen overnight). She is emaciated, and was extremely extremely dehydrated when I acquired her (which was Monday). Oh, also we did try to pop her once and she appeared to be female...however because she is so very skinny it may have been a 'false popping'...but I will refer to her as a female (because she is soooo pretty)

Since I got her home Monday night I have soaked her and she has been drinking....and since monday (on a positive note) she has become active and much more "aware". She does do a strange head thing....at first I thought it could be that IBD/star gazing, however when I turn her upside down she WAS able to right herself. I am starting to think perhaps she is just very weak and does not have great coordination. I attempted to force feed a rat pinky (smallest I had) which I was successful in getting it down her, although by morning she regurgitated it. I offered a small mouse hopper, but she had no interest (there is a question as to whether she is strong enough to constrict....) SO...next thought was to try to find a tiny mouse pinky and try to force feed that.

I also have her on Metronidazole (per my vet) (tiny dose of course, she is only 30 grams ) and she is getting that orally once a day for 5 days to hopefully take care of any parasites (being wild caught I'm sure she has them and I have read and have been told that may be a reason for her not wanting to eat).

SO......the reason I am posting this is to ask if any of you have ever had experience with WC babies in this condition (I have been told that this is the "end of season" and usually babies imported at this time of the year are often times in this type of condition). Unfortunately I have asked around and do not know of any reptile specialist vets in my area....there are a couple of vets that will see snakes, but they are not experts and they have not had experience with this type of situation.

I feel she is worth giving a fighting chance....after another week or 2 following the meds, if she starts to decline, or continues to not hold food down, I will go ahead and make the call to euthanize her. But I think giving her a week or 2 to recover is worth a try. If there is ANYTHING else anyone out there can advise me to do or to try with her PLEASE let me know. And YES she is being quarantined in a tub, high humidity, 92 on the hot side, 82 on the cool side, 2 small water bowls (well, more like "cups" one on the hot side, one on the cool side) and she gets oral metro once each morning.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I have been forewarned she may alreaedy be in kidney failure that may be irrepairable and I understand that. Hopefully time will tell...but until she starts to decline I still have hope she can make a turnaround. Thanks again for the guidance!

[Skiploder]

Hey everyone! Before I get started on the issue I just want to say if anyone would rather PM or email me with answers or advice that would be perfectly fine. And I also want to say, before I start, that this is a rescue case that I have chosen to try to take on and try to rehabilitate...I am asking for advice and guidance and suggestions as to how to better help this little girl....please do not tell me she needs to be put down. I am very aware of her current condition and I want to give her a fair chance....if her condition starts to decline, or she does not make any obvious improvements, I will make the decision to humanly euthanize...but I just want to make it clear I want to try to save her, so I ask that you only post helpful advice.

I was over the on the east coast of FL at an import facility and happened to come across a BP who looks to be a morph however her condition was so poor they offered to let me take her for free and give her a chance since she obviously would have a better chance getting medical care than staying longer at the facility. I am unsure of how old she is....a close friend who owns a reptile store locally here thinks she is approx 4 months (as she is obviously a baby, yet it does take a considerable amount of time for a BP to decline in health to this condition (ie: this did not happen overnight). She is emaciated, and was extremely extremely dehydrated when I acquired her (which was Monday). Oh, also we did try to pop her once and she appeared to be female...however because she is so very skinny it may have been a 'false popping'...but I will refer to her as a female (because she is soooo pretty)

Since I got her home Monday night I have soaked her and she has been drinking....and since monday (on a positive note) she has become active and much more "aware". She does do a strange head thing....at first I thought it could be that IBD/star gazing, however when I turn her upside down she WAS able to right herself. I am starting to think perhaps she is just very weak and does not have great coordination. I attempted to force feed a rat pinky (smallest I had) which I was successful in getting it down her, although by morning she regurgitated it. I offered a small mouse hopper, but she had no interest (there is a question as to whether she is strong enough to constrict....) SO...next thought was to try to find a tiny mouse pinky and try to force feed that.

I also have her on Metronidazole (per my vet) (tiny dose of course, she is only 30 grams ) and she is getting that orally once a day for 5 days to hopefully take care of any parasites (being wild caught I'm sure she has them and I have read and have been told that may be a reason for her not wanting to eat).

SO......the reason I am posting this is to ask if any of you have ever had experience with WC babies in this condition (I have been told that this is the "end of season" and usually babies imported at this time of the year are often times in this type of condition). Unfortunately I have asked around and do not know of any reptile specialist vets in my area....there are a couple of vets that will see snakes, but they are not experts and they have not had experience with this type of situation.

I feel she is worth giving a fighting chance....after another week or 2 following the meds, if she starts to decline, or continues to not hold food down, I will go ahead and make the call to euthanize her. But I think giving her a week or 2 to recover is worth a try. If there is ANYTHING else anyone out there can advise me to do or to try with her PLEASE let me know. And YES she is being quarantined in a tub, high humidity, 92 on the hot side, 82 on the cool side, 2 small water bowls (well, more like "cups" one on the hot side, one on the cool side) and she gets oral metro once each morning.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I have been forewarned she may alreaedy be in kidney failure that may be irrepairable and I understand that. Hopefully time will tell...but until she starts to decline I still have hope she can make a turnaround. Thanks again for the guidance!

The flagyl (metro) also acts as an appetite stimulant........it's good that she is being treated with the flagyl, but it's an antibiotic and used as an anti-protozoal. I have never given flagyl daily - I have always been prescribed dosages that are administered either one or two weeks apart. I really think you need to recheck that dosing regimen.

If she has worms or other non-protozoal parasites, she may also need a round of treatment with something like panacur.

As for the head tiliting, please be aware that a high dose of flagyl may induce clinical signs of vestibular disease with head tilt, loss of equilibrium, circling, etc. then again, with snakes, dehydration can induce these symptoms..........

Since she recently threw up the last prey item you gave her, it would be inadvisable to feed her anything else. Since it sounds like the regurged item was in her for at least 8 hours or so, I would not recommend feeding her anything else for a minimum of ten days - 14 days would even be better.

At this point depending on what parasite load she's carrying she could also be dealing with gastritis, which is another reason to get her clear of all her secondary issues before trying to feed her again. The dehydration in and of itself can cause vomiting so all of these little issues need to be addressed before you feed her.

It's important that you realize that since she is in bad condition, is possibly dehydrated, and could possibly be carrying a parasite load - that feeding her is probably not advisable as it will just lead to a regurge or vomiting which opens her up to a whole host of other issues.

That's why it is imperative that you find a vet that is qualified to treat her. A vet needs to check the flagyl dosage, perform a full parasite panel and also decide whether or not to administer subcutaneous electrolyte injections to combat the dehydration.

[Alexandra V]

First off, I want to wish you good luck with her!

Continue with the vet treatments to remove parasites, because that could cause her lack of appetite and her regurgitation, keep the high humidity like you have, but I'd suggest bumping up the temps to around 85 cool and 95 hot, it'll help her fight off anything she might have, and it'll also (hopefully) raise her metabolism a bit and she may be more willing to take food and may manage to keep it down.

Good luck, and keep us updated about her!

[tikigator]

UPDATE: Well, on my way home from work I was googling reptile vets in my area--I only came up with 2 names (one of them I know no longer practices here and the other I used to work for and even though he does reptiles he is not an "expert") but I debated taking her in tomorrow for an exam and to see if he had any additional treatments we could try. BUT......when I got home and went to check on her she wasn't in a good state. Her head was upside down and she was "head surfing" in her tub...which I had no seen her do previously. When I picked up her she was limp. At that point it seemed whatever was wrong (obviously there was a list of issues but whatever was the main issue causing this) was going to be irrepairable. So I put her to sleep. RIP pretty girl.

I tried. I should have known better than to take any snake in that condition but...I dunno. I've been a vet tech for 9 years now and I always have that need to at least try. And if anything else I guess I was able to put and end to her poor quality of life. Still really sucks. Sad to see any animal in that condition...and especially frustrating when you think maybe you got to them soon enough, but they are too far gone.

But thank you very very much for your reponses. I didn't realize I could have (and should have) waited to feed her....I was so worried about her starving to death I didn't think she could go another week without eating. Although if she has gone 4 months without eating I'm sure another 7 days wouldn't have really mattered. I did speak with a friend that said she has purchased many Ghana balls over the years and she said some of them are in okay shape, but the ones that are in poor condition rarely make it....even with the best of vet care.

Thanks again guys...appreciate your guidance.

Hopefully if anyone else every acquires a baby ball in this condition your advice on this thread may help them as well. so thank you.

[Skiploder]

UPDATE: Well, on my way home from work I was googling reptile vets in my area--I only came up with 2 names (one of them I know no longer practices here and the other I used to work for and even though he does reptiles he is not an "expert") but I debated taking her in tomorrow for an exam and to see if he had any additional treatments we could try. BUT......when I got home and went to check on her she wasn't in a good state. Her head was upside down and she was "head surfing" in her tub...which I had no seen her do previously. When I picked up her she was limp. At that point it seemed whatever was wrong (obviously there was a list of issues but whatever was the main issue causing this) was going to be irrepairable. So I put her to sleep. RIP pretty girl.

I tried. I should have known better than to take any snake in that condition but...I dunno. I've been a vet tech for 9 years now and I always have that need to at least try. And if anything else I guess I was able to put and end to her poor quality of life. Still really sucks. Sad to see any animal in that condition...and especially frustrating when you think maybe you got to them soon enough, but they are too far gone.

But thank you very very much for your reponses. I didn't realize I could have (and should have) waited to feed her....I was so worried about her starving to death I didn't think she could go another week without eating. Although if she has gone 4 months without eating I'm sure another 7 days wouldn't have really mattered. I did speak with a friend that said she has purchased many Ghana balls over the years and she said some of them are in okay shape, but the ones that are in poor condition rarely make it....even with the best of vet care.

Thanks again guys...appreciate your guidance.

Hopefully if anyone else every acquires a baby ball in this condition your advice on this thread may help them as well. so thank you.

I checked with our vet this evening and that metro dose frequency was too much. Once at the lowest dose for an animal in her described condition and then a minimum gap of 7 days before administering again. With an emphasis on dosing in 7 days only if she was showing signs of recovery - otherwise 14 days.

Sorry to hear she didn't make it.

[llovelace]

I sent a pm but never mind, she is gone. Sorry

[loonunit]

I'm sorry about that. I'm glad you tried. I hope you find another pretty one and have better luck with your next rescue.

[Maixx]

I'm sorry for your loss.

[tikigator]

Here's a pic of her:



We thought she could poss. be an enchi. Gorgeous banding.

Skiploder, I also checked and looked it up at work in PLUM and 2 other reptile medicine books and both said a low dose of Metro (25 mg/kg) once a day for 5 days, or a high dose (250mg/kg) once every 7-14 days. Because she was so tiny and Metro can have side effects of high doses we went with the low dose more frequently.

Thanks guys, wish I could've saved her...a few people told me with her belly being yellow and having the neuro signs she was probably alread in kidney failure and therefore uncurable.

[Skiploder]

Here's a pic of her:



We thought she could poss. be an enchi. Gorgeous banding.

Skiploder, I also checked and looked it up at work in PLUM and 2 other reptile medicine books and both said a low dose of Metro (25 mg/kg) once a day for 5 days, or a high dose (250mg/kg) once every 7-14 days. Because she was so tiny and Metro can have side effects of high doses we went with the low dose more frequently.

Thanks guys, wish I could've saved her...a few people told me with her belly being yellow and having the neuro signs she was probably alread in kidney failure and therefore uncurable.

At 25 to 40 mg/kg every three days a friend of mine was losing imported colubrids at a pretty steady rate. On animals with faster metabolisms - specifically rat snakes and other active colubrids - the more frequent dosing rate is usually prescribed, but with a python or a boa and their much slower metabolisms, I think you are asking for trouble dosing so frequently.

What we learned was that a 50 to 100 mg/kg dose (depending on the condition of the animal) every 7 days could be given with no issues and the casualty rate dried up.

In the past few years I have learned that flagyl is one of those medications that is often both easily and fatally overdosed and that the effects mimic being exposed to pesticides. When used correctly it works wonderfully.