Aggression/Skiddishness

[Andromeda]

I purchased a 4 month old ball about a month and a half ago. On the ride home, Andromeda (Andi for short) was very inquisitive. She sat on top of her hide with her head up, looking around, watching me, etc. Seemed friendly enough. I got her home, where I had set up a larger terrarium and gently transferred her into it with a snake hook.

I let her settle about a week, and went to feed her thawed pre-killed mice, which she rejected. After a few days of attempting pre-killed, I went and bought live feeder mice. She went after it right away, and has been eating an adult mouse once a week.

The past 2 weeks I've been trying to get her used to handling but she likes to snap at me. She has yet to bite, but she open-mouth lunged at my hand and face several times. She will rarely come out of her hide when I'm in the room. I tried to hold her yesterday, and it went okay but when I went to return her to her terrarium she pulled back into a striking position and didn't want to go back in. I sat her inside anyways and she got in a striking position again and stared me down. I can't figure out why she's aggressive, or what to do to tame her. I've held her a few minutes a day the past 2 weeks and I don't seem to be making progress.

I'm worried she may have been mistreated by her previous owner. The "transaction" was very quick...the girl took the money, handed me the terrarium, and got back in her car and left. Didn't want to talk, ask questions, make sure I knew how to take care of her, nothing. She stopped returning my texts as well, when I went to ask what size mice she had been eating and when the last time she ate was.

Here's her terrarium:


75 watt moonglow heat lamp, large heating pad under the hot side of enclosure. The mountain rock is odd shaped and there's space behind it which has turned out to be her favorite hide (where she was when the pic was taken) and then there's the half-log hide she uses sometimes, which has a small heatpad underneath. Have 3 thermometers, one on each end and one in the middle to keep up with temps.

Basking Side: Low 90s
Middle: Low 80s
Cool Side: Mid - Low 70s
Humidity: Don't have anything to measure, but I mist the faux-foliage every few days and her large water bowl helps with humidity as well I'm assuming. She went through a successful shed over night and it was a clean one-piece shed, so.

Anywho, anyone else have any experience dealing with aggressive BPs? I really don't want to get bit lol.

[XSV]

Were dealing with an aggressive pastel right now lol. She likes to try and tag me a bit right now but i think shes getting better.. i just try and pick her up without hesitation and or jumpy/twitchy movements. For the most part if she takes off when i try and pick her up i let her, otherwise i pick her up slow with open hands around her body and kinda let her feel like shes free to roam..
Sorry to hear bout the potential abuse though, good luck!

[Vypyrz]

My guess is she is stressed from the tank for starters. It looks nice but there are some things that need to be changed or modified:

-Under Tank Heaters (UTH) need to be regulated. This can be done by using a thermostat to regulate the temperature of the pad and will cost you about $25 online. Another option is to use a lamp dimmer switch from Lowes, or Home Depot for about $10. Here are some links to some basic thermostats, and a link explaining the lamp dimmer:

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...1529683&sr=1-7

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Instructions

One more thing concerning heat pads. Each one needs to be regulated separately to provide a proper temerature gradient.

-Hides. You need 2 identical hides. One for each side of the enclosure. Using 2 identical hides means the snake will feel equally secure in each hide and move between them to thermoregulate. The hides should be dark and snug. Personally, I don't like the half logs because once they get feces or urine on them, they will be a pain to clean. There are plenty of rock type cave hides available or plastic box types (which I use) or, the cheapest alternative is to make your own out of plastic flower pots or plastic bowls, which work great. Here are some links for examples:

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...nd-misc-decor/

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes/

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...0-Hides-my-way

- I would also suggest covering the two ends and back of the tank to make it feel less open. You can use things like construction paper, contact paper, aquarium scenery, or, I have seen people use dark window tint. It's up to you.

-Thermometers. I can't tell from the photo, what you are using to measure the temps with, but you need a way to measure the temperature of the warm side, which should be taken under the substarate, on the glass, above the UTH. You can use digital thermometers with probes or Temperature guns. Here are some examples:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermometers/

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...er-with-probe/

http://www.amazon.com/Chaney-Instrum...754675&sr=8-25

Additionally here are some more threads that may help:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...p-w-pics-*DUW*

[Simple Man]

The post above is spot on. Get a digital temp/hygro unit from Walmart. $12 well spent. The snakes sounds rightfully stressed out in its current situation. I don't think it is right to toss around accusations either. What's to say the snake wasn't the same way for the previous owner and that's why they got rid of it? Not a lot of people at pet stores or casual owners know how to properly setup and maintain a ball python enclosure as evident by the pictures you posted. From the sounds of everything the snake is just stressed out. Fix some things and be patient. Good luck and it's good you came to the right place for some knowledge! Read read read and you will get things fixed ASAP.

Regards,

B

[Andromeda]

I'm skeptical that my husbandry is that far off. I successfully raised bearded dragons, which are far more high maintenance than ball pythons, without the fancy digital stuff. Mine were significantly larger than a lot of the adults I've seen. I think those items are more optional than absolutely necessary.

Regarding the heating pads, I put my hand over the substrate that the heat pads are under and I can barely feel any heat rising up from it, I don't think they are adding a substantial amount of heat to the terrarium. I just added them in, because I had them laying around from previous terrariums. I figured they'd help a little when the temp in my room drops (which it will do soon, as I'll be firing up the air conditioner).

Regarding the previous owner, I wasn't necessarily implicating her, just noting it as a possible source of the misbehavior because how hurried and shady the transaction was. The lady pretty much dumped her off on me and scooted. Didn't ask questions, didn't tell me anything about her, and stopped returning texts after the exchange. Doesn't sound shady to you?

I'm just thinking it's more a behavioral issue. If she was so stressed out she wouldn't be feeding so readily, would she? She ate Tuesday, and I just fed her again a few moments ago. She struck and gobbled it up as soon as she saw it.

[Simple Man]

Snakes don't have behavioral issues like dogs. They are reptiles and while most will accept or become tolerant of handling, there are some animals that stay defensive. Any breeder will tell you that some animals just don't settle down. If it isn't your husbandry and it might be because of the openess, humidity (screen top?), and temps (mid/low 70's is too low for a BP cold side) then the snake might just need more time being handled and allowed to age. You also are handling the snake a lot. Balls should be handled a few times a week. We're just telling you that most the time a snake behaves that way it is because of environmental stress or other stress related issues. Ball pythons aren't the type to just hang out and inspect you either. They hide. It's what they do and it is why they like to feel secure. If they aren't feeling that way then they become or stay defensive. Good luck.

Regards,

B

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Young animals tend to be more defensive, now aggressive behavior in young animals tend to be husbandry/stress related unless of course you are not feeding this animal enough.

Things I would do, downsize the enclosure, provide TIGHT hides and by that I mean tight barely fitting all sides touching the animal's body.

I would also limit handling to a very minimum.

Most importantly I would regulate the heat pad what feels barely hot to you is too hot for a BP remember that your internal body temps is 98.6 therefore if the temps was 98 even a 100 it would not feel hot to YOU however it would be to hot for a BP, additionally any heat source can over-heat leading to severe burns and this will happen if left un-controlled.

[Andromeda]

I filled in the space she was squirming into behind the rock with substrate, so she has no direct access to the heating pad on that side of the terrarium, and removed the small one from under the hide. I'll swing by the pet store tomorrow before class and invest in a smaller hide, and go ahead and get the temperature probes so I can officially rule out temp as being an issue. The store also sells the backgrounds, so I'll pick up those as well and cover the back and sides.

But is a small enclosure really a good thing? When she stretches all the way out she's almost the length of the tank, short maybe 6 or 7 inches.

Here's a pic of her taken earlier today:

[Swingline0.0.1]

Ball pythons tend to like smaller enclosures. Since they spent most of their time hiding, they like to feel secure. That is much harder to do with a large tank.

[Vypyrz]

I wouldn't change the size of the enclosure just yet. I mean the snake is eating. I would just concentrate on snug hides and getting accurate temperature readings and regulation for starters.

What type of substrate is that?

I forgot to welcome you to BP.net in my earlier post.