Here they are more Thyssa pics......DUW

[mpkeelee]

i always read skiploder's posts, always good information and he always says the things i want to

[Skiploder]

I agree with you that the care sheets out there are SERIOUSLY lacking. Everyone one that I found on the internet for Thyssa continued to tell me that a yellow tree monitor and a Quince were the same. They also recommended rodents and other things that were not good for her. I also agree that there are many out there that will never really be tame. From what I read Quince are more docile than most. She was a breeders pet for 4-5 years prior to coming to me. As far as impulse....I can agree with that as well. This was NOT something I was thinking about getting but we fell in love with her and I am anal about how I take care of my animals. There is no doubt in my mind that she will not be healthy and happy.

Do I want ppl to help me and teach me more about her and what is in her best interest....of course. However I will not tolerate being approached such as I was. I go out of my way to help ppl that have less knowledge than I do. I also go out of my way to be nice and understanding to ppl. And lastly I go out of my way to give ppl the benefit of the doubt. I totally expect the same treatment. I take great pride in how I keep all of my reptiles and the research I do.

Monitors are not the only reptiles out there that are NOT being taken care of properly. Its truly across the board, but why is it so abrasive to get a message across. Its a total turn off to having a monitor! Maybe the fact that some ppl that have monitors are so abrasive that it really truly is hard to learn how to properly take care of them. You know the saying....more bees with honey!

I know that once I get this down....and get her perm cage done that I will never treat someone like this.....and I hope that helps someone else that maybe wasn't "planning" on buying a monitor but just fell in love with them.

Michelle:

You are confusing abrasiveness with concern.

Monitors are perpetually kept incorrectly. They are kept in cages that are too small, fed diets that endanger their health and are often treated like scaly dogs.

The amount of disinformation that is dispensed is staggering. The sad part is that there are plenty of places to get good, solid husbandry advice. Most reptile forums are not those places.

Daniel, Mike and Allergenic all post here - and their information and advice is spot on. While you may not find the tone as soft and cuddly as the advice given out by Robin and Judy (in the case of BPs), do not let that prevent you from following it.

You now have an animal that has husbandry requirements that far exceed those of just about any other reptile you could own. While I don't doubt your commitment to properly care for this animal, I do worry that the fact that you are trimming it's nails, letting it cruise the house, etc. could result in a bad ending. Purplemuffin has already hit on most of these points, but they bear repeating.

Not to beat you about the head and neck with this, but that animal needs a hot, hot spot, a large enclosure, a specific diet, and more importantly, time to settle in. Monitors are great at masking our mistakes in keeping them correctly for long periods of time. I agree with just bout everyone who has expressed concern that the animal is acting so tame. Not to sound like a broken record, but a "tame" monitor is more often than not one that is stressed or ill.

[BPelizabeth]

Well skip Thyssa and I were working today on a game of fetch... clearly joking!

You know I have mad mad respect for you!!! Probably one of few ppl I would take advice from and not think twice as to wonder if it was solid advice or not. As I stated previously....I just think there is another way to approach it. A little more gently and not so abrasive! Yea I like the soft touch thing....

Thyssa right now has a basking spot of 135. Getting that basking high is not a problem....currently we are doing a lot of misting to keep the humidity high. Her diet right now is consisting of poultry right now. Waiting for the Dubias to come in. She does come out a lot right now as we are working on a large cage for her. I want to make sure she gets the extra exercise she needs. Typically she will take a bath and cruise around the house for a while being nosey. She will crawl up on us and in and out of the couch or where we are sitting, then crawl around some more and back to us....then after a bit ....she will find a place to settle in. At that point she is taken back to her cage. She is not held against her will at all. As far as her nails....they are trimmed a little....as you can see they are plenty long still....just not razor blades.

As far as her cage....it will be 6 ft tall and 5 ft wide. It will have a pool at the bottom (heated to help with humidity)..another level will her burrow area with substrate and then of course the basking spot and trees and folliage. It will include a misting system to further assist with humidity. It will also include a sump pump(thanks for the idea J mug) and a drainage system to make cleaning easy. It will have a place for 4 lights if needed to raise the temps if needed. Still not sure what type of substrate to use....it will probably be a combination of things. If you can think of anything else I need in there let me know.

As far as Legit goes.....go easy...hes only 15 and very protective of his Auntie. He has a very good heart and means well and for his age....has a lot of experience.

I think the lesson in this whole huge mess of a thread is just remember to talk to ppl the way you would want to be talked to. Maybe if we approach things a little differently (in the monitor world) more ppl will ask questions and eventually we can do away with all the crappy info out there.

[ballpythonluvr]

She is such a little cutie Michelle! I can't wait to read the diaries of Thyssa!

[Skiploder]

Well skip Thyssa and I were working today on a game of fetch... clearly joking!

You know I have mad mad respect for you!!! Probably one of few ppl I would take advice from and not think twice as to wonder if it was solid advice or not. As I stated previously....I just think there is another way to approach it. A little more gently and not so abrasive! Yea I like the soft touch thing....

Thyssa right now has a basking spot of 135. Getting that basking high is not a problem....currently we are doing a lot of misting to keep the humidity high. Her diet right now is consisting of poultry right now. Waiting for the Dubias to come in. She does come out a lot right now as we are working on a large cage for her. I want to make sure she gets the extra exercise she needs. Typically she will take a bath and cruise around the house for a while being nosey. She will crawl up on us and in and out of the couch or where we are sitting, then crawl around some more and back to us....then after a bit ....she will find a place to settle in. At that point she is taken back to her cage. She is not held against her will at all. As far as her nails....they are trimmed a little....as you can see they are plenty long still....just not razor blades.

As far as her cage....it will be 6 ft tall and 5 ft wide. It will have a pool at the bottom (heated to help with humidity)..another level will her burrow area with substrate and then of course the basking spot and trees and folliage. It will include a misting system to further assist with humidity. It will also include a sump pump(thanks for the idea J mug) and a drainage system to make cleaning easy. It will have a place for 4 lights if needed to raise the temps if needed. Still not sure what type of substrate to use....it will probably be a combination of things. If you can think of anything else I need in there let me know.

As far as Legit goes.....go easy...hes only 15 and very protective of his Auntie. He has a very good heart and means well and for his age....has a lot of experience.

I think the lesson in this whole huge mess of a thread is just remember to talk to ppl the way you would want to be talked to. Maybe if we approach things a little differently (in the monitor world) more ppl will ask questions and eventually we can do away with all the crappy info out there.

I have never had any doubt that you would do the right thing by her. You have both the intention and means to make sure she leads a long and happy life.

I'll say one more thing about the attitude of the monitor community and then I'll drop it.....you are talking about a dedicated group of keepers who - without the help of care sheets and a huge forum support network - have worked hard to find ways to keep these animals healthy in captivity.

Nothing about a monitor is cookie-cutter. With the exception of crickets, no pet store caters to their dietary needs. No one manufacturers the perfect monitor enclosure, and no pet store sells the perfect monitor substrate. Everything that a lizard, snake or frog keeper can easily buy has to be cleverly manufactured and cobbled together from other less conventional sources.

What many people consider proper husbandry for monitors amounts to little more than animal abuse, and like we've already touched upon, most care sheets and non-varanid forums actively promote keeping these animals in ways that seriously compromise their health.

Savs, salvators, crocs, niloticus, ionides, dumerils................we see these animals sold cheaply everyday to people who have no idea what they are getting into and who are given possibly the worst advice on their husbandry. The majority of these animals live miserable lives - not given enough space, not given enough heat, fed an unhealthy diet, and then trussed up into harnesses and paraded about the neighborhood.

So what some perceive as rudeness is nothing more than a small group of people who are tired of seeing the same bad practices used and reacting to what they see as another example of someone getting into these animals who is not prepared or properly informed on how to keep them. You are the exception to what is normally seen - most people will sit here and adamantly defend these bad practices, ignoring the advice they are given.

When people talk of monitor "tameness", they are - as Daniel stated - referring to nothing more that the animal tolerating and being accustomed to your presence. They cannot be trusted like a dog or a cat. That cute monitor who scampers across the carpet and lounges on the coffee table isn't so cute when your kid goes to touch it and still has the smell of his recently consumed Happy Meal on his fingers.

As for your protective nephew - that's great that he loves his Auntie, but he still went broadside on someone who was trying to offer you help and advice. In the process he posted some bad information on one of the most potentially dangerous monitors sold in the pet trade. I sincerely hope he was not the jack ass who decided to send Daniel that PM.

This isn't a mess of a thread. It shows the polarization between common misconception and reality. Elizabeth, if you have not already done so, I would take Daniel up on his offer to provide more extensive links. I would start by checking out a link you were already given by someone else - Biawak - and read the back issues. I would also join Varanus.Net and Varanus.Nl and search every post about melinus.

[Jerhart]

.

Health and Well-being
vs.
Stickers and Kittens

[BPelizabeth]

Jer....lol

I totally agree with everything you are saying skip.....but then again I usually do! I have already read some of the issues of biawak and have to send an email to Varanus as they are not accepting regular registration due to spammers. I have to agree 110 that these are sold without proper knowledge and quite frankly....the more I read ...the more I am a bit intimidated by the real care of her.

I do want to add and then I hope this thread just dies...

I have been told by more than one veteren on here that many do not post things in regards to their monitors because of the nature of how things come out. (clearly not mentioning any names here). While I can understand that its frustrating seeing so much crap out there. Wouldn't it be in monitors best interest to be a more helpful in a way that would is not so abrasive?? Certainly not looking for an answer....just something to think about. Again the more bees w honey thing can apply. ?? Just saying!! I have said it before and I will say it again.....I hope that I can help someone later once I get this down pat.

[Matt K]

Wow, what a thread, haha.

I am totally enamored by monitors, but have never had the resources available to me to keep them properly. Your monitor is very handsome, and your prospective setup sounds great.

I can see both sides certainly, and I think there's a time for gentle criticism, and a time for bluntness. I think brutal honesty, and I mean BRUTAL, should be implemented in all cases of consideration of purchasing an animal. A huge majority of people buying monitors simply won't be able to keep them properly--they won't have to dedication, resources, or even information to do it right. I think approaching these buyers abrasively will force them think twice about making a purchase they are more than likely unprepared to properly deal with. Talking softly in this case will only encourage them to jump into something too deep for them to handle.

Also, as for the tameness argument--being abrasive here seems also like the appropriate response. While there are certainly exceptions to every rule, it is MUCH better to be safe than sorry with such dangerous animals. Promoting the tame-ability of monitor lizards will only lead to unnecessary injury. What bad could highlighting the aggressiveness of monitors bring? It seems to me very little in comparison. In fact, I think it could only lead to a healthy respect that is well deserved.

On the other hand, if a purchase it made, and the owner seems to have all the necessary intent, dedication, and resources to keeping their animals happy, perhaps some softer guidance is warranted. I think the problem is discerning when that is the case. While Daniel's comments might have brought offense (though personally I can't tell why they would have, especially after his follow-up comments), they were clearly coming from the good place of wanting to see an animal lead a happy, healthy life. With it being so difficult to discern the responsible keepers from the irresponsible ones, and with so many people trying to keep monitors, I think abrasiveness seems like a reasonable default; I would rather see a few uncomfortable and/or offended monitor keepers than I would a bunch of sick animals--that is, given that with abrasiveness comes solid information, as was presented in Daniel's comment.

I certainly think you should encourage Legit to apologize for his harsh words though. As a 15 year old, I can't see how it's his place to tell an experienced keeper he knows nothing. His post was by far the most offensive made in this thread, and in keeping with the professionalism we all like to see on this forum, he shouldn't be coddled here. It it always important to remember that posting something on the internet brings permanence. Without being too dramatic, those words will be attached to his name forever. Before posting anything, we should all take some serious time to consider and choose our words carefully. For that advise, I'd have to say age is inconsequential. As soon as he decides to post on a message board, he should be encouraged to be professional and thoughtful, as we should all be.

Anywho, all of this is just my take on things. I wish you the best with your beautiful animal, and I'm sure she will be happy in your hands. Congratulations on the addition!

Cheers,
-Matt

[Jeremy Browning]

In my opinion the #1 thing to keeping a happy monitor is heat. i keep savs black throats and a couple ackies. the savs have 5'x3'x2' cages and the blackthroats have 6'x5'x2' cages and the ackies have 55 gallon enclosures. the reason the monitors have relativly small cages is because they have acces to a 95 degree monitor room where they like to cause trouble. this room is 24'x21'x8'.