Thoughts on Ralph Davis' newest controversial youtube video?

[Jay_Bunny]

I think the video was amazing! Some people do not have access to a GOOD reptile vet. I mean, most vets that treat reptiles can diagnose common problems like RIs (which mine could not! The vet tech and I had to convince her the snake had an RI before she'd prescribe meds!), scale rot, and mouth rot, but when it comes to things like this, some are just not knowledgeable enough to do things properly. And like he said on the video, he's had to do this a few times before, so obviously he's had practice. He could have sterilized his tools before use and just didn't film it. I DO think he should have mentioned if he did or not, so that people watching the video that might need to do this same procedure will know to do so, but I think overall the video was very educational.

[BroknBusted]

Yes vets go to school for years for this sort of thing( I am in the process as we speak), and as the person above me said they decide where to draw the line of what they will and wont do based on their opinion...in that school they get told to draw the line at a certain point, a point that they decide for themselves based on their years of schooling. How is their years of schooling more validated than years of seeing, breeding and working with these animals?

Ideally Ralph would have had a surgical suite attached to his snake room whisked the little one in there documented from start to finish his entire clean up, sterilization, and wound closure and made a public service announcement saying that this had a risk of septicemia, infection, dehession and various other complications and had his DVM.

How ever what he did was fairly similar to what would have been done if a vet would have agreed to complete it for him ( and when you first saw that wound, that would have been a BIG IF). They would have cleaned the wound, put what they needed to back inside and stitched her up. Yes they would have worn gloves and had an operating room, but the actual procedure is the same thing.

I still say he did the right thing and that the choice he made was far better than just culling the little thing without giving it a chance, and just look at her now.. an gly tummy but a wonderful looking snake!

sorry for the rant.

Ok. I agree that the method he used would be similar to a vets. HOWEVER, he is NOT a vet, as evident by trying to place part of the yolk back into the snakes belly. I realize he has no surgical suite. But sans sterile gloves ( not gloves in an open box across the room as someone said) is even to much a risk for infection.

The years of school MORE then validates a vet over a breeder in the simple aspect that the vet is TRAINED to so such things and not just trying it. If a vet decides against said proceedure it is due to his knowledge of what the out come can and can't be, which is what he is trained to do.

I submit that had the snake died, more then a few who agree with what he did would be just as opposed to it as I am and blamed the guy for not seeking out a vet.

And as you stated, septecemia ( an infection) dehission, bleeding and many many other things need to be considered and watched for post surgery. Nothing is mentioned in either video of that.

I am just afraid that someopne will try something similar to this at home and lose a snake that they should have taken to a vet to be saved. There is a reason vets or doctors don't post thses kind of videos. So that the average joe ( not a breeder with years of experience as he has) doesn't try this at home.

[BroknBusted]

I am sorry I am ranting about this. I am glad this is a forum where there can be open debate.

I just want to clarify something else.

To be a sterile enviorment, all the instruments need to be sterile. Sterlie gloves must be worn. Sterile draps must be used. Sterile technique must be used.

Wether the instruments WERE sterlized prior to him doing this is moot. The fact he touched them without sterile gloves makes them now UNSTERILE. I think some of you confuse clean with sterile. They are two very very different things. The minute any sterile item comes into contact with anything not sterile, it is no longer sterile.

He didn't need an operating room. But the lack of the sterility in things he could have had is wrong, ESPECIALLY seeing as he has done this proceedure before.

[SlitherinSisters]

I already ranted on the other thread about this same topic...so I'll just pick out a couple pieces.

Watching his other videos, I highly doubt it was a dirty pig sty of an environment. That guy is crazy about washing his hands! The only thing I would change is the thread to fishing wire-as I have spoke with breeders who use that. I know I will run into this one day, I already have my first year breeding.

Growing up on a pig farm we NEVER had a vet come help us when we had an emergency. Had we done that we would have have a lot of dead pigs and the farm would have shut down from all the expenses.I was out there pulling baby pigs out of sows who were about to die because they had complications during labor. And guess what? I didn't have gloves, I didn't drag the pig onto a doctor's table, I didn't wait a 1/2 hour for a vet to get there, I did it right where she was laying as soon as I found her and rinsed my arms off. And you know what else? The sows and majority, if not all, of the babies almost always pulled through. I could go on and on about all the other gross nasty stuff we had to do on the farm ourselves, but I won't bore you with details.

Bottom line, BPs are easy, if they were more sensitive/complicated a vet would be needed. IMO an experienced, confident herper is more than capable.

[zina10]

Brokn, I think we do get your points, truly.

But you have to look at the big picture. Ralph saved its life. He could have just as easily culled it, it isn't even a valuable snake.

He had a far cleaner environment then many VETS have when they work out in the field. Used to be, most Vets were working large animals. You have downed cows in a dirty pasture, with huge prolapses, sheep with torn uterus, emergency surgery in muck pile.

They geld horses in the field. Its far from sterile, yet got performed every day, even nowadays. They do their best to sanitize the wounds, clean and stitch up. Nothing out there is "sterile". Or only for a few seconds.

Yet they often have success. They couldn't tell the farmer, well she is your best milking cow, but I can't shove that mass back into her, because its not sterile and I can't pick her up and move her to my sterile surgery room...

Point is, all you can do is try. He could have taken it to the Vet, but precious time would have elapsed, and the chance of tears of fatal injury would have been great. I would have rather put it into the freezer then leave it in that state till getting to a vet. Emergency vets that are GOOD with reptiles are not something readily available at most times.

Also, I would not compare this snake, with the one that was skinned alive by a rodent. The skinned one was a living open wound. There was nothing to "stich" up and cover up with healthy, living tissue. Those 2 cases cannot be compared.

As long as there was no tears in the guts and they got cleaned and sanitized well, they were well protected by the stitched up skin. And skin that is stitched up before becoming necrotic usually grows back together and heals remarkably well. The biggest fear was infection, but again, there was a good chance the snake could make it, and it did.

What really stood out for me the most, was the compassion with which Ralph handled and spoke off the snake. Even in his comments he mentions how the snake didn't bit him because "it loves him" and its a keeper.

It just goes to show that he has not lost his passion for those animals yet, it has not become a purely financial venue. Or he wouldn't spend the time and effort and "love" on a het pied.

Just my 2 cents.

[ShortStack]

I am just afraid that someopne will try something similar to this at home and lose a snake that they should have taken to a vet to be saved. There is a reason vets or doctors don't post thses kind of videos. So that the average joe ( not a breeder with years of experience as he has) doesn't try this at home.

I get what your point is here. I watched the video, and yes, it's awesome that he did this. And yes, it's awesome that the snake has survived. And yes, he may have done this so many times that it will be successful most of the time. And yes, he may have sterilized the instruments and it just wasn't shown. BUT not everyone has the experience with snakes that he has, and may watch this and say, "Hey, all I need is a needle, thread, and I'm good to go." He has probably learned about snakes inside and out being involved with them for so long. Not every reptile enthusiast, hobbyist, ect, has gotten THAT educated. He may not be a vet, but he could still have knowledge on their organs and how they function, which could be why he is able to do this successfully. BUT, your average joe, so to speak, may not take the time to do that, or have the experience to know. It was a great video, showing him saving the life of an adorable snake, and I commend him for that, but I understand what you're saying about just anyone seeing it and feeling they have the knowledge to do this. While it looks like he was just "stuffing guts" back in, there may have been a little more rhyme or reason to it and because some of us aren't as experienced with snakes didn't see.

[ShortStack]

IMO an experienced, confident herper is more than capable.

I agree. And with the farm stories, while you weren't a vet, you had the experience. I think Brokn's concern is more that the INEXPERIENCED herper would attempt this, not having the knowledge necessary to handle the situation. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that was how I understood his posts.

[BroknBusted]

As I said, I'm pretty much alone on this one.

So I will leave it with this:

I am glad she lived. I am VERY respectful of this breeders effort to not just let the snake die. Even with the scar, she turned out to be a beautiful snake. And lastly, I VALUE everyone's opinion on here. Almost all of you have FAR FAR more knowledge with BP's then I do. I LOVE this site and thank everyone for letting me debate my side without making me feel like an idiot or without insulting me!

And thanks to SlitheringSister, I feel the need for a BLT for lunch now. LOL.

Thanks all for your educated and well spoken debate!

[BroknBusted]

I agree. And with the farm stories, while you weren't a vet, you had the experience. I think Brokn's concern is more that the INEXPERIENCED herper would attempt this, not having the knowledge necessary to handle the situation. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that was how I understood his posts.

What she said, but in 10 less post and more eloquently! Thank you!

[DemmBalls]

He saved the animal's life...End of story! If it felt a little pain or discomfort during the procedure...It was for a good cause! 9 times out of 10 this animal would have been culled and most people here would have no issue with it. So...why have an issue with him trying to save the animal? If someone sees this video and feels confident enough to perform such a procedure, then let them try...It is up to them to determin whether or not they are experienced enough to handle this! What people decide to do should not be pinned on Ralph! He merely provided the information and instructions. I think he did a great thing and I support Ralph 110%!