Unexpected Eggs

[santino34]

Thanks guys. I am near Dayton, Ohio. I reported it to the local Boomshoft Museum of Discovery, but they never came out to see the snakes or anything. They acknowledged the parthenogenesis, but nothing more.

[WingedWolfPsion]

My bet is on them being females. I have mourning geckos--all female. In the majority of cases of parthenogenesis, the mother essentially clones herself. They don't all have the same pattern because pattern is only partially genetic--it's also developmental. That's why identical twin snakes also do not have identical patterns. Genetically identical does not mean physically identical.

Komodo dragons are a highly unusual case--females that reproduce via parthenogenesis will have all male offspring (not a mix of genders). As far as I know, they're the only species that does this. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

It will be extremely interesting to hear if this female repeats the trick in the future! You may have better luck with clutches down the road, if you find them more quickly and get them into a stable incubator. Deformities such as you see there can be caused by improper incubation temperatures at crucial points in development, not just by genetics. (Actually, they're associated with incubation problems more often than with genetic problems).

[shorty54]

Interesting story! Thx 4 sharin! I agree #3 is BEAUTIFUL!

[RandyRemington]

I remember a case of Burmese python parthenogenesis in a European zoo where the embryos (some whacked zoo policy prevented allowing them to hatch) where all female clones of mom. The article commented on that being unusual as at the time parthenogenesis had been seen in some viper where apparently a random half of the moms genetic material was doubled and only the ZZ sons where viable (interesting about the WW female boas surviving in the wiki link). So apparently two types of parthenogenesis are known in snakes.

Congrats on hatching these as I've seen several reports like this through the years where i suspected the clutch was lost due to inexperience with incubation. Would be great if could eventually find a grad student to do some testing of mom and babies for a paper to see if these are the clone type or the fully homozygous type. You could also perhaps find a local breeder here to sex them for you and if any males might explain the problems as fully homozygous animals might expose a few bad genes from mom.

I suspect parthenogenesis might happen fairly often in ball pythons, perhaps even when males are present, but most are quick to dismiss the possibility. Could explain the occasional unexpected phenotype result in morph breedings.

[CookieCutter]

WOW! I read this thread front to back in one sitting haha!
That's really weird! Whether it be parthenogenesis or stored sperm, it's awesome!

I can't imagine the shock you had when you found EGGS! O_O

[jfmoore]

Hi all,

New member here and first post. I first bred ball pythons in 1983 and still have a male I got in a pet store in 1979.

I came to this thread through a search for parthenogenesis in ball pythons. This is a very interesting story, indeed; not just because of the genetics, but due to the human interest angle, as well: long-time pet purchased to help pay off someone's utility bill, etc.

Here's a link to the case of the zoo animal that Randy Remington referred to above: It's in the journal, Heredity, "Molecular genetic evidence for parthenogenesis in the Burmese python, Python molurus bivittatus" http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v9.../6800210a.html

The problem with our anecdotal information is that we can never be sure (or at least, never really convince everyone) that these are truly cases of parthenogenesis without some sort of specialized DNA testing of the offspring. It would be nice if the original poster could find some academic specialist willing to do this.

Anyway, the same sort of thing happened to me just ten days ago. A virgin female ball python I produced myself seven years ago deposited a small clutch of eggs. If anything comes of it, I'll post more.

[ClarkT]

That's cool to know of another occurrence. Definitely keep us posted.

[cecilbturtle]

is this just a random thing or are there environmental factors that can contribute to this happening?

a while back i got a female bp. the first thing i noticed was my male going insane in his enclosure. well insane for him. he is about 800 grams and an 06. he started producing sperm but calmed down and continued to eat so i left them in the same room. i recently noticed my female acting strange. she has been coiling her her water bowl and i find her in her hide upside down.

i gave this behavior little notice because she has had absolutely ZERO contact with my male. now i might just set up an incubator.

this was by far the most interesting thread i have read so far. i have a degree in biology and chemistry. i have read about this but really do not know anything about it. very fascinating!

are there any updates? I'm curious where the surviving babies ended up. do you still have them?

[chapskis1]

Hi all,

New member here and first post. I first bred ball pythons in 1983 and still have a male I got in a pet store in 1979.

Ummm...how about some pictures please of your 32 year old python. He is probably older than half of the members on here!!

[Carlene16]

I would love to see some updated pictures of these guys. This was a very interesting thread when I first read it