Kill pen horses

[SlitherinSisters]

Horse owners CHOOSE to own their horses, and therefore make a committment to care for them. Caring owners who cannot keep them give them away, sell them or donate them, they do NOT kill them just because they are no longer interested.

So only good people choose to own horses and they always do the right thing and never send them to auction. There aren't any people that are in it all for the money and when they can't sell the horse and make a buck off them, they NEVER send them to slaughter houses, because they chose to own the horse and they know the responsibility that comes with it.

None of those people would ever choose to slit their horse's throat, shoot them in the face with shot guns, light them on fire, stab them till they die, shoot them with nail guns, wrap metal wire around their throat till they can't breathe, or any other horrid death they can think of when they don't want the horse anymore. They don't bother to drive the horses to auction because it costs them more gas money than they would make in "meat" money. And you are probably so naive to think I'm making all those things up.

[hmfarms]

Please read this and know that it is honest and heartfelt, I am NOT being sarcastic. I want to appologize for offending you, I read your email several times, and actually have found great respect for you. I don't necessarily agree with you on every point (ESPECIALLY mentioning PETA as I personally think that they are a joke), but I do see that you are passionate about the horse's welfare and I feel badly for being so ugly. I am SOOO tired of hearing excuses for abuse, and most people are NOT as educated and informed as you are, again I appologize.

Please let me explain. I do NOT live in "perfect auction land", although I will say we have accomplished many good things in Virginia.I USED to see the horrors you talk about at our auctions, although they do not exist to that extent any more. Now, to be honest, our horse protection laws still suck, but a horse in Virginia is NOT allowed to go through an auction unless it is in fair condition and able to carry itself. You will not see chains in our auctions, nor the types of injuries that you talked about. I think that if I had to see that on a regular basis I might just rethink bringing a shotgun for the owners! We have a good vet on the premesis, and a humane investigator available. Owners who try to sell seriously injured or neglected animals are prosecuted on the grounds. I have been to the auctions that you talk about, and have actually bought horses just to bring them home and euthanize them humanely. To be honest, we have been so backwards in our animal laws that I never would have believed that those things still happened in other states. THAT is an obvious example of MY uneducated state, and I promise to learn not to spout my mouth off until I educate myself.

I hope that the benefit to our unfortunate introduction is that maybe you will see that I really do appologize, and would like to learn how to help to change things in your state. I don't have access to a lot of money, but I do have a network of really caring people and every horse we can help is one more blessing in this life. I understand if you don't want to correspond with me, but if what you say is happening in your auctions, I certainly would like to be involved in changing it. By the way, crow tastes AWFULL! Barbara

[Egapal]

Caring owners who cannot keep them give them away, sell them or donate them, they do NOT kill them just because they are no longer interested.

You clearly haven't spent a lot of time in the horse business. My father and my grandfather on my mothers side were both horse trainers. I grew up around horses. Its not as easy as giving them away, selling or donating them. First of all it costs a hell of a lot of money to feed and care for a horse. If you are in the horrible position of not being able to care for your horse you can certainly give it away, sell it cheap or donate it. Guess what happens to most horses that are sold cheap, donated or given away. The kind person who took your horse in puts it on a truck and sells it for dog food. You can make a decent amount of money at this and so it draws in all kinds of folks, especially when the economy is tough. I would much rather have a horse killed then starve to death.

[hmfarms]

Please read my newest post, and yes, I have been in horse rescue for over twently years. I have scraped maggots, held horse's heads as they died, and paid good money just to bring a horse home to euthanize it. I, like everyone else, have experienced times of financial hardship and have cleaned other's stalls, homes and toillets just to earn enough money for hay. Why are people ADVOCATING slaughter as an answer to abuse? Why are we not fighting to prosecute the people who put these horses in these situations? EVERY state has laws regulating some form of animal control (not non-profit rescue) who is mandated to sieze and/or accept owner submission. My heart goes out to ANYONE who cares about an animal but can no longer care for it, but I will not support inhumane slaughter just to give abusers and money makers a way to get rid of their evidence. I was wrong to blast everyone when I did not realize the conditions of auctions in other states, and have posted an appology. I still believe, however, that slaughter is not the answer, prevention and education are.
In Virginia, you are not allowed to even brring a cow into a sale unless it is able to walk into the auction on its own power, and shows no sign of neglect. Owners who attempt to are prosecuted. Does that mean there is no abuse in Virginia, of course not, we fight it every day, but have you been personnaly present through the entire slaughter process? Watched them fall, scream, fight because the scent of blood terrifies them and clings to you for days? Once for me, and no more. I still feel unclean. I agree that the conditions she talked about in the auctions there are HORRIble, but why is NO ONE talking about changing THAT???? Why is the answer to make it easier to kill them? Does re-opening the slaughterhouses stop the abuse, or make it easier and more profitable?

[hmfarms]

You clearly haven't spent a lot of time in the horse business. My father and my grandfather on my mothers side were both horse trainers. I grew up around horses. Its not as easy as giving them away, selling or donating them. First of all it costs a hell of a lot of money to feed and care for a horse. If you are in the horrible position of not being able to care for your horse you can certainly give it away, sell it cheap or donate it. Guess what happens to most horses that are sold cheap, donated or given away. The kind person who took your horse in puts it on a truck and sells it for dog food. You can make a decent amount of money at this and so it draws in all kinds of folks, especially when the economy is tough. I would much rather have a horse killed then starve to death.

Um, YOU said "The kind person who took your horse in puts it on a truck and sells it for dog food" THOSE are the people selling them to slaughter houses, who exactly would they sell them to ( or buy them FOR) if there were no slaughter houses? I have admitted my own ignorace on this site, and I am trying to make things better, HOWEVER You just serve to reinforce my point. WHY are you not working to promote legislation to STOP the cruelty instead of PROMOTING the way to incinerate the evidence? If you care about the horses and I think you do, slaughtering them is not the answer. Real money is made on horse slaughter, even if they have had a lifetime of abuse. My feeling, we should require that convicted abusers pay fines to rescues, just a
thought

[El_Dorado]

Before the houses were closed, the International Fund for Horses pegged the number of slaughtered horses in USA at 65,000/year. The American Horse Council pegs the amount of the horses currently in the USA to be over 9 million. That's fewer than 1% of the horses in the states being slaughtered each year. Abuse becomes more evident now that we don't have a "disposal" system for these abused horses, but it is not new. This has been going on for years and it will continue to go on with or without slaughter. There is no major outbreak of these neglected horses because slaughter in the USA was closed.

This happens to all stock animals. Cows, horses, pigs, etc., it's just a society that can peg an animal as a pet worth fighting for, and a commodity not worth the fight.

[coldblooded]

There's a lot of emotion in this thread, and rightfully so.

hmfarms, you have only participated in this thread and I am wondering if you joined to only debate within it. You will find that this site is full of people who truly care about animals of all kinds, since most of us here deal with some of society's most scorned creatures (reptiles, invertebrates, etc).

My family has been in the horse business for decades. We have bred as well as rescued horses and we all have a very strong passion for them. Something does need to be done to help stop cruelty to ANY animals, whether they are dogs, cats, snakes, horses, cows...whatever. Animal cruelty of any sort is not right.

Does that mean that all slaughterhouses of any sort should be shut down? No. You will have a hard time convincing people to stop eating meat. Slaughterhouses, along with any industry associated with food animals, should be put under closer scrutiny to ensure that the animals have minimal suffering prior to their deaths.

I have been to slaughterhouses, I have also been to feed lots, chicken houses, and other sorts of processing facilities. The conditions that some of these animals are raised and kept in are equally, if not more disgusting than their relatively swift departure at the slaughterhouse.

Yes, we need stronger laws towards animal cruelty of all sorts. Yes, we need more scrutiny towards slaughterhouses and the facilities associated with them.

[Egapal]

Um, YOU said "The kind person who took your horse in puts it on a truck and sells it for dog food" THOSE are the people selling them to slaughter houses, who exactly would they sell them to ( or buy them FOR) if there were no slaughter houses? I have admitted my own ignorace on this site, and I am trying to make things better, HOWEVER You just serve to reinforce my point. WHY are you not working to promote legislation to STOP the cruelty instead of PROMOTING the way to incinerate the evidence? If you care about the horses and I think you do, slaughtering them is not the answer. Real money is made on horse slaughter, even if they have had a lifetime of abuse. My feeling, we should require that convicted abusers pay fines to rescues, just a
thought

I apologize for misjudging your level of understanding of the issues. I have and do support legislation to stop cruelty. I don't see all slaughter houses as being guilty of cruelty. I don't live in a perfect world and I believe in being realistic. Death is part of life. Animals die so that other animals may live. I understand that many people love horses and can't bear to see them slaughtered but I would argue that this is cultural. To paraphrase Denis Leary. Cute animals get to live but cows lets grill them up! As long as a best effort is made to minimize suffering I see no innate difference between slaughtering a cow and a horse. Laws passed in some states have done more harm than good do to people ignorant of the big picture making these decisions. My point was that if a horse is going to end up at a slaughter house I would much rather drive it there myself then have it crammed into a cattle truck where it will get injured on the way. If there is profit to be had why not have it go to the person who put so much time, effort and love into the horse, let the profit go to keep another animal from such a fate. At the end of the day we have to look at the big picture and try to minimize as much suffering as we can. Focusing all our efforts on a hand full of animals is not the best way. We need to pass sane laws that take the big picture into consideration. There will be animal abuse and suffering long after we are all dead. The best we can do is minimize it where we can. I applaud your efforts but don't condemn others for not fighting abuse the same way you choose to.

[SlitherinSisters]

First I have to thank everyone for supporting me even though I 'support' horse slaughter. I appreciate my fellow members for jumping in on this hot topic!

To hmfarms, in my original post I tried my best to show that I was educated on the matter without getting into the gory details. The closing of slaughter houses was by far the worst thing to happen to horses in Iowa, and I would assume many other states. I never saw horses in such atrocious conditions until the horse slaughter ban that went through. The one thing that really bothers me is that the shutting down of horse slaughter did nothing more for the horses than prolong their torture. They STILL go to slaughter! The only difference is that they are shipped out of the country in deplorable conditions. If people thought slaughter houses in the US were bad, what about the ones in Mexico?! And then there's the boat slaughter houses. Horses walk onto the boat and leave as packages of meat.

Bottom line is that it's one of the most useless harmful laws ever created for horses (at least here in Iowa). At our auctions horses are worth more in meat than they are as a pets/riding partners. Dead broke horses are going for $200 to $400 dollars average while in the kill pen horses are going for $300-$400. It wasn't like that before the horse market crash, which was the same time slaughter houses were banned. The abuse has surfaced now that people don't have an easy disposal of their horses in which they can make some money unfortunately. As well as the at home 'euthanasia'. Like I said before, the problem lies with horse abuse not slaughter houses.

Hopefully you see my view on the subject as more than just heartless support for horse slaughter.

[anatess]

I don't own horses, I've only ridden a horse at the fair, I don't know anything about them outside of Preakness...

But...

We don't eat horses because we don't eat dogs. It's the same thing. Some time in American history, it was culturally accepted that an animal species generally accepted as a human companion deserve to die like humans - not for food consumption.

In the Philippines (I'm Filipino), dog meat can be sold at the market. Americans scoff at this calling Filipinos uncivilized. I understand the sentiment because I agree that the civility of a society can be measured by the way they treat their pets.

Members of my family became an advocate for dogs and are working towards changing the culture.

The way I see it - horses are bunched into the same category as dogs. Generally accepted as human companions. So, it became frowned upon to eat horses. I get it. I understand it.

So, slaughterhouses for horse meat for me is not the answer to animal cruelty. Just like selling dog meat at the market is not the answer to dog cruelty.

But - kill shelters for dogs are necessary. I see that. There are just people who shed the responsibility of caring for their pets and there are not enough resources to care for these abandoned animals. Therefore, kill shelters for horses may also be necessary.

Now, I don't know what you mean by slaughterhouse - if you mean slaughtering for eating, then I'm not in agreement with that. Kill shelters - like the ones they have for dogs - ok. I can support that.

Just my 1 cent.