Has 8Ballpythons closed down???

[MarkS]

If Adam never enters the snake breeding business - yes.

If he does - no. Every potential future customer and every person thinking of donating to NatPet should be aware if something smells like fish here.

Bull... A private transaction between two people is just that. A PRIVATE transaction. YOU are not owed an explanation, I am not owed an explanation, NOBODY but the individuals involved in the transaction require any explanation at all and CERTAINLY not that kangaroo court know as the BOI...

If there is any kind of impropriety involved on either side, there are plenty of legal avenues to pursue. The only reason to bring this up at all after two and a half years is to drag Adam through the mud. If the OP doesn't like the way be was treated, he can get a lawyer.

[waltah!]

Bull... A private transaction between two people is just that. A PRIVATE transaction. YOU are not owed an explanation, I am not owed an explanation, NOBODY but the individuals involved in the transaction require any explanation at all and CERTAINLY not that kangaroo court know as the BOI...

If there is any kind of impropriety involved on either side, there are plenty of legal avenues to pursue. The only reason to bring this up at all after two and a half years is to drag Adam through the mud. If the OP doesn't like the way be was treated, he can get a lawyer.

Those were my thoughts for the most part. I think that if he owes him and takes care of it then there's no need for lenghty explaination for the rest of the world.

[Skiploder]

Bull... A private transaction between two people is just that. A PRIVATE transaction. YOU are not owed an explanation, I am not owed an explanation, NOBODY but the individuals involved in the transaction require any explanation at all and CERTAINLY not that kangaroo court know as the BOI...

If there is any kind of impropriety involved on either side, there are plenty of legal avenues to pursue. The only reason to bring this up at all after two and a half years is to drag Adam through the mud. If the OP doesn't like the way be was treated, he can get a lawyer.

So if you send me $2K for some animals and I don't deliver you'll keep your trap shut and not bring it up here or somewhere else? You'll agree that in such an example you'll deal with my theft in silence?

While some people may remember Adam as a good guy and an active, respected member of the community, I can guarantee many, many more will remember the handful of accusations that have recently surfaced and anything with his name on it will be affected.

You can scream bull all you want, but NatPet and any attempts by him in the future to get back into snakes will be affected.

So does he owe an explanation as to what happened? If he cares about his reputation he sure as hell does.

A private transaction between an advertising business and a private party becomes the business of everyone in the community who was affected by it.

[MarkS]

The "business of everybody in the community" my left butt cheek, how in the world is this affecting you as a 'member of the community????'... This is a private business transaction between two individuals. There is no 'community' involvement here. I for one am really getting sick and tired of this guilty until proven innocent attitude from the 'community' Whatever problems are going on between Adam and Lockes is THEIR business and it should stay that way. There are just WAY too many people sticking their noses into business that is none of their concern.

[Skiploder]

The "business of everybody in the community" my left butt cheek, how in the world is this affecting you as a 'member of the community????'... This is a private business transaction between two individuals. There is no 'community' involvement here. I for one am really getting sick and tired of this guilty until proven innocent attitude from the 'community' Whatever problems are going on between Adam and Lockes is THEIR business and it should stay that way. There are just WAY too many people sticking their noses into business that is none of their concern.

Why are you getting so worked up over this Mark? Take some time and collect your thoughts. This obviously has struck some sort of nerve with you. If someone is getting rolled by someone who has a product to sell or a venture to promote in this community - than we all should know about it. Your left and right butt cheeks may not care but a lot of people do,

It's my business as a member of this community. I have been warned and have warned people about doing business with people who have done wrong by others. It's mutually beneficial to all of us.

If Locke is wrong, or the other person is in the wrong about their deals - it will come out.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and not share good and bad experiences with other people in this hobby - go ahead. As another on this forum once stated - that's a warm and comfortable place.

On the other hand two people have now come forward with unsubstantiated allegations. You have responded by accusing one of them of dragging Adam's name through the mud, At some point, if these allegations are found to be true is it still your assertion that the rest of the community have no right to be warned?

As for Locke lying or dragging Adam's name through the mud:

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...t=15367&page=5

Post Number 17.

Couple that with Adam's last post here and draw your own conclusions - or keep your head toasty and warm - it's your call.

[mykee]

I for one, am glad when these types of issues are brought to the attention of the reptile community et al, because I, (and even YOU) are members of said community and should be made aware of who the scuzbags are so that we can steer the hell clear of 'em.
We remain a self-policed community and without customers airing their grievances with a breeder, there will be more dirtballs than we can shake a stick at (both literally and figuratively).

[TriniBP]

I saw him recently at a reptile show in PA! He was selling a few remaining snakes...he has money to do refunds...period.

[MarkS]

Well, I guess it's just me then. Am I really the only one who is disgusted by this vigilante attitude that seems so prevalent in this industry? Whatever happened to the right of a person to keep their business affairs private?

Why would anyone even bother responding? It appears that Adam has already been tried and convicted in the court of the BOI, even talk of hunting him down and breaking his legs. All on the word of a guy who, so far, has posted no proof. It's completely ridiculous.

Are there any other businesses where the business owner is required to post the details of a private transaction because of public requests to do so? No way, you try something like that with any normal business without some kind of court order and you'd be laughed at. But no, not the reptile business, if you're not right quick to defend yourself from all comers then you're obviously a bad guy with something to hide. Frankly it makes us all look like a bunch of thugs.

If Adam did so something wrong, if he does in fact owe money to people, then that's up to the REAL courts to decide. File a complaint with the better business bureau, file a complaint with the attorney generals office, file a civil lawsuit and get your money back, but for God's sake don't go airing your dirty laundry out in public for the entertainment of a bunch of rubber neckers.

[Skiploder]

Well, I guess it's just me then. Am I really the only one who is disgusted by this vigilante attitude that seems so prevalent in this industry? Whatever happened to the right of a person to keep their business affairs private?

Why would anyone even bother responding? It appears that Adam has already been tried and convicted in the court of the BOI, even talk of hunting him down and breaking his legs. All on the word of a guy who, so far, has posted no proof. It's completely ridiculous.

Are there any other businesses where the business owner is required to post the details of a private transaction because of public requests to do so? No way, you try something like that with any normal business without some kind of court order and you'd be laughed at. But no, not the reptile business, if you're not right quick to defend yourself from all comers then you're obviously a bad guy with something to hide. Frankly it makes us all look like a bunch of thugs.

If Adam did so something wrong, if he does in fact owe money to people, then that's up to the REAL courts to decide. File a complaint with the better business bureau, file a complaint with the attorney generals office, file a civil lawsuit and get your money back, but for God's sake don't go airing your dirty laundry out in public for the entertainment of a bunch of rubber neckers.

That vigilante attitude exists because of the bad deals and bad people that have haunted this hobby.

After being involved in tropical fish and after market car tuning and racing I can safely say I have seen more bad crap go down in the reptile business than any other businesses combined.

There should be no dirty laundry - money is either owed or it isn't. If someone comes out on more than two occasions and admits an error on his part - months ago - and to this day it's still not resolved, it has nothing to do with dirty laundry.

It has everything to do with being an ethical businessman and the discussion here has everything to do with looking out for each other.

[aff19802]

I just saw someone from them there.