Should I just give up?

[Animals As Leaders]

According to Mazuri's dealer locator there are two places you can go and one is 10 miles away. Sounds like your in business!

https://www.mazuri.com/Home.asp?Products=2&Opening=4

[snakeman13]

I use Mazuri 6F rodent breeder formula.
My hooded average 12 a litter, 24 breeding females,
my asf's average 17 a litter, 120 breeding females.
wont use anything else.

[chully]

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble. My wife and I have been breeding rats on and off for a few years, though in the past year with our snake collection growing we're breeding a lot more. I have three racks comprising 6 breeding tubs with a 1.4 ratio, and 20 birthing large tubs (MacCourt 26x26x6's). This results in mostly 1:1 female/litter to a tub, but a few veteran & new mom's double up.

They're housed on pine pellet bedding covered in aspen shavings; this really keeps the ammonia down because the pellets absorb urine and the shaved aspen is nice bedding to nest in. I currently feed Rat Diet (Lab Diet) 5012 but I'm considering Mazuri 6F as a replacement due to the high protein content and some skin problems I see pop up with the 5012 necessitating the addition of fats to their diet. They also get (and adore) dandelion greens from our yard and any of our organic kitchen scraps; egg shells, watermelon, cantaloupe, apples, greens, etc.

Some of the new mothers have no concept of being a mom. I like to keep a veteran mom in with new ones, because the veteran will adopt an abandoned litter frequently, and the new mom gets a lesson in nursing. Additionally, they tend to communally pile babies and one mother will nurse giving the other a break. Maybe a silly notion, but it makes me feel better about them!

The pine pellets work so well, that we rarely have to change litter more than once a week. Sometimes at 5-6 days, but rarely.

I don't know what exactly it is we're doing right but we've had very low pinkie losses. We produced 12/12 litters during January, when temperatures outside were -30F, in the semi-insulated garage, around 34F. +1 to the person who previously said; rats do well in cold temperature, you just need to keep their water system flowing.

PS - I have a blue rat, veteran mom. Hasn't lost a single baby in all four of her litters. She, and all of her offspring are the most docile, friendly rats we own. Just my two cents.

[Jay_Bunny]

Well just as an update. I have not been breeding the rats due to trying to get the mites under control. I have checked with the store that orders my Mazuri in and they said they are closing down. So now I'm on the hunt for someone who can order Mazuri in. I checked the Tractor Supply store in my area and while Mazuri's site lists them as someone who carries it, the guy there said he couldn't find it, nor could he find it in the system. He did offer to email his Purina rep and see if its something they have to special order and he'll give me a call back (very helpful guy) as soon as he hears something back, probably by Monday.

So, if this store doesn't carry it, I'll have to find some sort of alternative. I know the reptile show has people who carry rat feed there, and while its not Mazuri (I recall it being Harland Tekland or something like that) its better than dog food. I might pick up a bag while I'm at the show.

As soon as the mites are taken care of, I'm going to try out the females I've been raising up. All of them are ready to breed, so its just a matter of putting a boy in with them. I'm also going to be making new enclosures so I can stop using glass tanks. I hate glass tanks.

[snakesRkewl]

Are you using pyrethrin spray to rid your house of mites?

i had a nasty outbreak of tropical rodent mites and that spray was invaluable in getting rid of those lil bitting ******.

Harland is def better than most dog food, lol, but if you do have to go to dog food make sure to get food with no dyes added.
I have bought basic no name blue bag dog food from IGA stores and it works, but man the poo stinks and they get diarrhea when you switch them, much like a dog when you switch their food.

[littleindiangirl]

Jay, if you have mites, you've got to seriously consider stopping breeding and starting over from scratch.

And yes, the blues most people refer to as being weak or ill lines are the English blues. Russian blues seem to have no problems, at least from the lines I have been working with.

I have a few dozen blue females (het dumbo) that will be popping out blue dumbos for me pretty soon.

Blue is just the color. The gene associated with color has NOTHING to do with reproductive capacity.

Blue rats, if bred appropriately, have no more problems than any other colors.

By this time next year my entire colony will be blue dumbos.

I don't anticipate ANY problems.

When you breed a bad rat to a bad rat (no matter what color) you will have problems. When you breed a good rat to a good rat you get good babies.

And no, it's not JUST a color, there is more to the colors in rodents and mammals than just a paint job. Take a look at high white animals, horses, dogs, cats. Often they are deaf (along with more serious diseases), this is due to several factors, one that contributes highly to delay in the migration of the cells that create pigment to the entire body.

Secondly, blame the rodent fancy/pet trade for the English blue problems. Eng. Blues were severely inbred to the point where hemorrhaging and other fatal diseases were rampant. We can still see much of this today, luckily, the Eng blue gene is recessive, and can be worked away from by careful out breeding. I personally have only seen trouble with the English blue color. Russian blues, not a problem! (And yes, they are very different colors, created by two very different genes)

Claiming that color has no other effect than to change the fur color is not correct. I'll step off my soap box now.

[snakesRkewl]

I've bred blue dumbos for some time now, American and Russian with no health issues period.
Good quality genetics makes for good quality babies.
Out-breeding now and then with more good quality genetics is important with any rat colony

[Jay_Bunny]

How long should I wait after treating them with flea and mite spray to CO2 them and use them as feeders? I treated them about a week ago. I'm going to go ahead and start over. I just need to CO2 my colony, clean and sanitize all of the enclosures, make new ones, and get everything ready for new rats.

I got some Harlan Tekland food. 66lbs worth for $40. Thanks for all your help everyone! Starting over will give me a chance to start with good healthy stock.

[Jay_Bunny]

I want to CO2 them as soon as possible so how long do I have to wait after putting the flea spray on them before CO2ing them? They will be intended as feeders.

[snakesRkewl]

Good question, I've never fed off rats after flea treatments