THAT is a hot spot

[allergenic]

WHAT????!?!?!? Where are all these people getting this info?????

I have owned several monitor species.....and NONE of them...were on an Insect based diet.
The fact that you truly believe that is quite astonishing.

Hi Patrick,

One of the authors of some of the studies mentioned in this thread is a guy named Daniel, and his published findings were based on years of observation of V. exanthematicus in the wilds of Africa. His data was collected through both primary observation of behavior, as well as examination of other factors like stomach contents and fecal samples.

In the years he spent over there before the start of the Butaan project, he found over and over again that the Bosc seeks out inverts even when many types of prey are available. He found that the Bosc, unlike almost any other species of monitor, is not an opportunistic feeder, does not feed on whatever is available (including carrion as gbassett mentioned), and is generally not the garbage disposal that many make it out to be (despite other monitors being just that). To make generalizations about the diet and behavior of V. exanthematicus based on the diet and behavior of other monitors would simply be inconsistent and incorrect. The Bosc simply does not eat the way other monitors do.

Given those years of observations by himself and other people who have found identical data, I don't see this as much of a debate, rather either an acceptance or an ignoring of fact.

Feed your damn monitor whatever you want.

This is, unfortunately, what most people do. And judging by all the obese, sick looking, slovenly Boscs I see on Youtube and forums, it doesn't seem to be successful.

The point I think people miss is that it's not about "who knows more about monitors" and "my information is correct and yours is wrong". It's unfortunately that so many Boscs die or become sick due to misinformation and from care that does not remotely match their habitat and dietary needs, that a lot of people become interested in finding out better ways to actually keep their animal alive and active/healthy. This includes reading up on actual dietary habits of the animal in the wild in studies such as those mentioned here, rather than continuing to rely on the pet industry to tell us how to care for the animal (which coincidentally includes purchasing all their products).

Hope that helps.

[allergenic]

It should also be noted that the initial "e" in V. exanthematicus is lowercase, though it seems autocorrect in these posts keeps capitalizing it.

[CoolioTiffany]

I know very little about monitors, but I have noticed that almost every thread on the Monitors and Tegus forum becomes a huge debate over the same thing over and over.

I'm not trying to get into anything that's happening on this thread but I'm just saying. I've read every post on the thread so far and even though I don't get involved in this I find it quite worthless and time wasting when people debate over this stuff.

Sending them a PM of the other threads containing good info, maybe throw in a couple caresheets, and debate it out that way. Not trying to piss anyone off, just a thought.

[RR - Mackenzie]

I know very little about monitors, but I have noticed that almost every thread on the Monitors and Tegus forum becomes a huge debate over the same thing over and over.

I'm not trying to get into anything that's happening on this thread but I'm just saying. I've read every post on the thread so far and even though I don't get involved in this I find it quite worthless and time wasting when people debate over this stuff.

Sending them a PM of the other threads containing good info, maybe throw in a couple caresheets, and debate it out that way. Not trying to piss anyone off, just a thought.

Now...

There's a good, level-headed, and neutral thought!

I was thinking the same thing, Tiff.

[allergenic]

I have noticed that almost every thread on the Monitors and Tegus forum becomes a huge debate over the same thing over and over.

It's interesting you call it a debate, as a debate implies that both sides have opinions or ideas which have merit and depending on the art of persuasion can be considered more valid.

In this case, maybe those that feel that a rodent diet and lower basking spot have merit could let us know the findings from their own trips to Africa to observe the Bosc, and we could debate those against Daniel's previously mentioned findings from his time in Africa.

[CoolioTiffany]

It's interesting you call it a debate, as a debate implies that both sides have opinions or ideas which have merit and depending on the art of persuasion can be considered more valid.

Well I sort of consider it a debate since some people try saying its good to have rodents in the diet and others are saying they think insects are what it should only eat.

But I might've chosen the wrong word, I just wanted to give my opinion to what I think. Keeping monitors is definitely not an easy thing from how much detail you have to go into with their husbandry and with feeding, but I don't see the reason to fight over what is better to do and what is best for the monitor.

[h00blah]

It's interesting you call it a debate, as a debate implies that both sides have opinions or ideas which have merit and depending on the art of persuasion can be considered more valid.

i think she was trying to be nice

[Animals As Leaders]

I'm going to agree with this one. Why are you arguing over something so stupid? Not saying your monitors health isn't a concern, but some of you guys are like two year olds in how you explain why your method is superior. This just puts people on the defense and makes them react. Why not just talk about it like adults, citing info from both sides and then determining from multiple outlooks what is the best. This is how bad info gets spread, and how tempers get flared up.

BTW, whats with the dog cage set up? Seems like a horrible way to house a monitor no?

[rabernet]

I've got no dog in this fight, because I don't keep these critters, but http://www.savannahmonitor.org supports a diet heavy in insects and lean in rodents.

Feeding – Rodents

The feeding of rodents to a Savannah Monitor is an increasingly controversial topic, centered around both profit motive and a profound lack of knowledge. No one is sure the origins of the idea to feed vertebrates to an invertebrate feeder, but it’s evident today that the few loud, dominant proponents of an all-rodent feeding regimen actually own lucrative frozen rodent feeder businesses. It would be worth it to maintain a healthy skepticism when receiving any information on this monitor, before determining just who has what financial stake in the purchases you are making for your reptile.

As Bennett observed and was quoted as saying in the introduction to this section, the Savannah Monitor is an invertebrate feeder and had fed on mammals with a frequency of less than .2%. If the animal feeds primarily on insects and mollusks in the wild, why feed it anything else in captivity?

The first argument is that keepers in captivity have a great opportunity to offer food items to the monitor that are “nutritionally superior”, an opportunity to give the monitor variety it doesn’t have in the wild. It is argued that rodents are part of this nutritionally superior feeding plan.

The truth is nothing but the opposite. It doesn’t take a zoology degree to take a quick look at our “success” in captive care of the Savannah Monitor and see a long string of obesity, subsequent health problems and causes of death related to feeding monitors a diet incredibly high in fat. If this rodent-based feeding plan is supposed to be superior, are we really doing all that well? Compare the lean body structure and limb strength of any wild Savannah Monitor with a tubby, fat-bodied, stick-legged captive, and it will be more than evident that something in the food/metabolic cycle is severely off.

The second argument is that the Savannah Monitor only eats insects and mollusks due to low availability of rodents in the wild.

On the contrary, rodents and many other prey are plentiful in the regions in which the monitor inhabits, and the senses of the Savannah Monitor are acute in that a quick flick of the tongue and the monitor would know exactly what sort of animal is at the bottom of the burrow it is peeking into.

As has already been said, the Savannah Monitor is simply a specialized feeder, unlike the majority of other monitors. It eats what is best for it, and what its body has adapted to eat, namely insects and mollusks.

Feeding – Diet

As we have covered, the Savannah Monitor is hunter of invertebrates and the majority of its diet will consist of insects found while foraging throughout the day.

Aside from the cost of caging, the cost of maintaining this medium to large lizard solely on its proper diet of insects, mollusks, and crustaceans is enough to make anyone think twice about keeping a Savannah Monitor. Owning several or more self sustaining colonies of insects will be a necessity. Being such a specialized feeder, it’s one of the many reasons that this monitor should never be looked upon as a “beginner monitor”.

Insects

For insect prey items, we can suggest a combination of roaches, crickets, large mealworms, locusts (mainly available in Europe), grasshoppers, millipedes, and centipedes as being most nutritionally complete.

For most of us, the easiest of these to acquire and/or keep in larger quantities will be crickets and roaches. Crickets are such a staple insect in the reptile feeding industry that their availability is quite high. While we realize that the concept of a breeding roach colony is not appetizing to a keeper’s family, roaches are extremely easy to maintain. Checking into species of roach such as the popular Blaptica dubia, you will find availability of non-climbing, non-flying roaches whose enclosures do not produce a foul smell. Roaches have a fantastic meat to shell ratio.

The biggest complication in feeding a monitor that hunts invertebrates is how to sustain an invertebrate-based diet as the monitor gets older (and therefore larger). The idea of a large monitor trying to sustain itself chasing comparatively tiny crickets around an enclosure is enough to give anyone a chuckle. One option is to move to larger insects. Blaberus craniifer and Blaberus fusca are great feeder roaches that are similar to Blaptica dubia and larger than Madagascar hissers. Also, at age 2-3 switching over to more shelled items to increase variety will be beneficial.

Thiaminase

Though shelled items will be part of the staple list of prey items in a Savannah Monitor’s diet, it would be worth it to mention prey items containing Thiaminase, and to suggest using them sparingly. Thiaminase is an enzyme that breaks down Thiamin/Vitamin B1, and is found more in fresh water animals. Too much thiaminase can lead to Thiamin Deficiency Syndrome.

Though we have not seen harm in sparingly feeding some types of foods containing Thiaminase, anything above “sparingly” is questionable. Harm due to thiaminase overload is seen more in situations like private keeping of puffer fish, as they rely quite heavily on diets of seafood.

Mollusks

Snails are a Savannah Monitor favorite, and most contain low to no levels of thiaminase. Oysters have also been used, and contain little to no Thiaminase. Mussels and clams are also fed by a number of keepers, but contain varying levels of the enzyme. The Savannah Monitor has no problem taking these items whole.

Crustaceans/Shellfish

Crayfish/crawfish/yabbies and crab are great components of a varied diet. As with all non-insect prey items, however, shellfish should be used as an addition to the diet rather than a staple. Crawfish/etc. can be purchased online and shipped to your door in large quantities, and can be fed to the monitor whole.

Fiddler/hermit crabs can also be used. Asian markets are a great place to come by shellfish. Shrimp should be fed heads and all, as a whole animal (not just the tail).

For younger monitors, the prey item can be cut up as long as it is still fed in its entirety.

Sources of your food

Care should be taken to verify the sources of your food! Due to the prevalence of pesticides and chemicals, taking in feeders simply from outside your home is generally a bad idea. Also make sure to buy items such as seafood and avians from a reputable vendor.

As discussed above, rotate fish markets to vary the types and degrees of possible chemicals and/or toxins the fish have been exposed to.

Even Pro-Exotics feeds at least their juvies a diet that's heavier on inverts rather than rodents:

http://www.proexotics.com/care_savannah.html

Feeding- We feed baby and juvie monitors 6 days a week. Four days on feeder insects (roaches are a fave and easy to work with) and two days on thawed rodents. Adults get fed according to need and body weight.

[Animals As Leaders]

This seems like a more healthy way of feeding. After reading all of this debate I got a little interested and began looking into a little, this for sure seems more balanced. But then again, what do I know ?