Is this really a humane way to pre-kill?

[ice#1]

just get a bb-gun and shoot them in the head just like they do to make those hamburgers everybody loves so much or hot dogs granted they use a bigger gun but good for our food why not good enough for a pets food.


come on people these is our pets food you think your snake will care if it's food was crushed(ha-ha-ha constrictors crush) smacked in head with a finger or what ever a sissy uses to hit them in the head cause there finger is to soft. or die a death of lets face it suffocation (you know why this is considered so human cause it knocks them out instantly) let me ask you people this that use this method i've tried a few f/t from co2 and 1 thing all the mice and rats had in common when thawed blood starting coming from nose or ears every time you know why it burst blood vessels in the throat and brains not very human other then animal was asleep and couldn't wake up to get away kind of like dieing in your car from the fumes don't know it's happening but you go to sleep then die from oxygen starvation

here read this is what your doing to be humane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphyxia
dont sound so humane now does it? it is still killing no-matter how you look at it your taking a life you need to learn how to deal with it then just say oh this is a good way to kill so i don't get my hands dirty. then not to mention where does the co2 go when your done killing your mice or rats or what ever prey you use do you suck it up and use it again or leave it in the bucket to use next time or simply dump it out to help the greenhouse effect and help kill the planet 1 mouse at a time well at least the mouse died painlessly but get hundreds of thousands of snake owners doing it then we over time help kill each other but hey at least we just go to sleep and not wake up right so no biggie. oops no we die from skin cancer and other stuff from ozone layers being messed up but at least we killed our mice humanely (to bad we can't say the same about our selfs) yes i know dumping c02 into the air on the scale we use is no big deal compared to all our cars and such(i don't drive for this reason) but still it adds up in the long run

point being learn to deal with the death of a prey item there is no reason to go build a c02 chamber for just a couple bucks if you dont want to get your hands dirty there are tons of companies that sell frozen rodents and guess what they deliver also and it is actually cheaper in the long run to buy from them i checked prices at a recent show and versus even just buying if you buy a bag of frozen is actually cheaper to buy frozen then to buy live so why even get your hand dirty at all

[jfreels]

Nice reply, Ice. You put a lot of your own emotions into it, but not a lot of thought. You did make one valid point though, if you're not breeding your own feeders, it IS cheaper to buy in bulk from a breeder (who uses CO2, btw).

But if you're un-willing to keep frozen mice/rats in the freezer, then I could see why you'd choose to pre-kill.

[ice#1]

no not really did i put emotions into that just started typing and let what was in my mind go but it was after my 4 year old woke me up at 2 in the morning when i posted that

but none the less i still just dont get how starving something of oxygen is considered humane heres a list of just off top of my head of oxygen starved deaths astha attack (ask anybody who's had one if they think it would be a humane way to die same with any other examples) drowning (yes not quite the same but still die due to no oxygen) choke to death on piece of food. (closest example as no-matter what can't take air in. i'm sure there is others but lets face it honestly try it stick your head in the bucket and make sure to have a buddy around to pull you out before you die bet you change your mind if you try it.

rember these are communal animals so they have emotions and feelings. just cause they are quickly put to sleep dont mean they dont feel no pain (I'm reminded of patents that there doc got the Anastassia wrong and doc swore they were asleep and could feel nothing but upon waking up the people could tell the doc what all he said and did while they were suppose to be out.
rember our brains even mice tell us or them if something is harefull to us to get away from it and you honestly think that aint going threw the mice or rats minds till they are dead

if this was so humane why is it recommended to leave the animals in the tank for so long to make sure it is dead. get a mouse or rat trap hold them and just stick them in it so it hits them in the neck they are dead before you can open the trap far less painful then starving an animal of oxygen Evan if they are asleep in the first couple seconds there brain is still active and to claim they dont feel anything is honestly just a plain lie c02 aint no Anastassia or pain med c02 is what makes us breath (ie in the fact our bodies are expelling c02 to draw in oxygen thus by adding more c02 you in fact make the body work harder to exspell the c02


found this on wikipedia
Main article: Nitrogen asphyxiation

Nitrogen asphyxiation is an occasional cause of accidental death and a theoretical method of capital punishment. The painful experience of suffocation is not caused by lack of oxygen, but rather because of a buildup of carbon dioxide in the bloodstream which is exhaled under normal circumstances. After just two or three breaths of pure nitrogen, the oxygen concentration in the lungs would be low enough for some oxygen already in the bloodstream to exchange back to the lungs and be eliminated by exhalation. Crude simulation of oxygen transport through the lungs and blood stream suggests that the partial pressure of oxygen in arterial blood would be about 50 percent of saturation 1 minute after switching gases and would reach zero within 3 minutes.

now look they say the pain aint caused by not being able to draw in o2 but the build up of c02 and thus must be compounded with the higher amounts of added c02 to the bucket equals more pain

[jfreels]

So I'm obviously not getting it (and I'm obviously not reading more than the first couple sentences). You breed mice, do you feed live? Or do you shoot every one of them in the head with a BB gun? Since you like going out and finding examples of how asphyxiation is so inhumane, look up vets, animal control and many other goverment regulated institutions that approve CO2 euthanasia.

People have actually done studies, tests and other such stuff. I think you're just being ignorant to the facts. You think that the process of being euthanized by CO2 is the same thing as being strangled. It is not.

[americangypsy]

omg Yikes .

[ice#1]

honestly jfreels i get mine when don't care what kind, size, or sex of mice from i get them cheaper live then frozen for weanling's to month and half old if i rember right last time i got 50 it cost me 10 bucks but my cousin is cousins with the breeder i buy mine off of (I'm related to my cousin through his mom the breeder is relater to my cousin through his dad so no relation of mine) but he gives me a very good deal might only be because he is getting out of breeding the end of this year if i rember right after 10 plus years of breeding but i get a good deal none the less even more so since all i ever get off him is females

[ice#1]

OK on a quick search of just that found that allot of govs say it is OK but aint it our same government who lies to us about many other things check this out dentist say use fluoride to strengthen teeth now go look at ingredients of mouse and rat poison why does it have fluoride in it are we trying to strengthen the rats and mice teeth with poisons no fluoride is a chemical by product and is even fatal with long term higher doses (food and drug admin know this but still condone it's use)

check this link out different but a guy who goes against government thinking of using fuoride in water is a bad idea since fluoride is a poison
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/fluoride.html
med research proving fluoride added to water bad tons of info in this link
http://www.lovethetruth.com/truth_about_fluoride.htm

ok so what does all this got to do with c02 well if what we have said for many years after supposedly studding fluoride in water before it could be used ie the same process they used more or less for determining c02 was safe and human i got to disagree look at what they supposedly done by mistake to humans cause god only know how many to get cancer or long term poisoning deaths world wide i mean come on the let the fertilizer industry dump there waste off into our bodies and you think these same people care if an animal suffers while it is asleep come on open your eyes they are just finding ways to use what c02 they can

I'm in a town where they are putting a plant thats by product is c02 that they plan on pumping the c02 into the ground so our town as a whole has done tons of research of c02 and dieing from it and i must say when you talk to a vet that uses c02 to kill there old pets or put down strays if they aint being paid to say it is humane they dont say it is those people that say it is humane is paid to say that they dont get paid if they dont say what is wanted of them to say. our town does injections cause they tried the c02 and they said there was tons more movement then before they switched from injections to gassing and they stated that on record in a town meeting

go ask your doc how humane he would think it to be if you killed yourself by c02 guess what he will say (explain to him your just doing a study cause they say it is humane to kill animals that away) and I'll bet he will tell you it aint a good way to die.

anyway you look at it it's not humane look at people who choose to kill themselves in there garage with car running(if you've read any reports even thought they were trying to kill themselves there bodies natural instinct to survive kicked in and most the time it is to late they still die) that does the exact same thing it don't crush you to keep you from expelling c02 it makes it so no-matter how much 02 is in the air your body can't take it in.
now push all the 02 out of a bucket and nothing but c02 is there then your body no-matter how hard it tries can draw 02 in you know the real reason people use c02 is? they aint got the stomach to watch the animal die thats it no ifs ands or buts about it


i myself flip my mice in the back of the head with my finger for rats i smack with a pencil then give them to my snakes on tongs so they grab head first so in-case the mouse or rat is just knocked out the snake aint covering it's mouth so it ends up getting bitten. i tried with out offering tongs before and mice and rats dont always die just get knocked out and would come threw part the way threw constriction and bite and chew on the snake when just throwing the mouse or rat on cage floor.

I've noticed when i do get a couple f/t rats and mice my snakes squeeze longer then if they feel the heart beat go out. which i think by making a snake squeeze longer stresses the snake out more then them feeling the prey struggle against them. on average i timed it a couple times and my snakes would constrict twice as long with a f/t then with live or fresh killed prey by fresh killed i mean prey is still reflexing from dieing

[Christina]

If you are going to pull the tail, make sure you grab by the base of the tail and not the end because you will pull its tail right off! That is usually a good way to do it. If you can set up CO2 then go for it, I guess.

[jfreels]

Ahhh, it's one of those tinfoil hat people I heard of earlier....good to know! Honestly, I can't read your giant blocks of text with giant run-ons. I did skim over it and you seemed to avoid my question. It appears through other posts on this forum that you breed mice, look at these threads for an example....

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73533
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=125160
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=125189
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=124523
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119659
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123436

From looking at your posts, you want to get into breeding snakes and for some reason you already have a well established colony of mice. Again, do you feed live or shoot them with a BB gun?

[mommanessy247]

god i cant believe he even suggested that method for killing the rodents...ugh. some people really sicken me.