Seven months off feed

[hvincent]

Hi,

I've been lurking here for a while and have always meant to post before now, but now I actually need help so I guess I'll speak up.

I have a male ball python. He lives in a 30 gallon long tank with clay pots to hide in, fake plants and branches and other things to climb on, fresh water to drink (pic). It's about 87-88 on the warm side and 74-76 on the cool side. The humidity is generally around 55-60%, though sometimes it dips down to 40% if I haven't misted the tank in a couple of days, but he always has a warm damp spot to sit in if he needs it.

He is just over a year and a half old. For the first year of his life, he ate every piece of food I offered him (I fed live rats about once every 7-10 days, depending on his activity level; the rats are held by the tail with my fingers and by the scruff with hemostats so they are given the absolute minimal opportunity to bite him, and we have never had an 'incident'). Just after his first birthday, he broke about 700 grams.

Shortly afterwards, he stopped eating. That was last November. It was pretty sudden; he's usually very quick to strike, but he went from gleefully swallowing everything I offered him to turning up his nose and going back to bed. I assumed he was going off-feed for the winter (something he didn't do the previous winter) and decided not to feed him until the ice melted and the sun started coming up again.

February came by, then March. When April happened and he still wasn't eating, I got kind of worried. Near the beginning of May, he took one very very small rat, but then refused two more. I tried changing the color of rats (he's never been picky about color before; I get all my feeders from the local pet shop guy who produces feeders for a lot of local herp keepers), I tried pre-killing for him (something I never wanted to do before because I think it's important for my beliefs to let him do his own killing).

Then I realized that around the same time he stopped eating, my housemate adopted a kitten. The kitten quickly grew into a cat that had free-range of the entire house; I'd come home and find everything near my snake's tank knocked over. The cat's been around during failed feedings, being spastic and trying to jump on the tank, jump at the rat, jump at the snake, etc. So I decided that the cat was stressing him out, spooking him out of eating.

A few days ago, I moved the snake to my boyfriend's house, which is free of small, easily excitable and prey-driven creatures. Since we're moving in together over the summer anyway, I figured I might as well move the snake now and give him more time to get over the trauma of being harassed by a half-feral cat all day long.

I just tried feeding him now, and he still didn't seem interested in food. He pulls away from the rat, sometimes flinches a little. He doesn't ball up or try to tuck himself away in his hide or anything, just turns his face away whenever I bring the rat close.

My real concern now is that I'm worried he's getting too weak to eat. He's dropped to just under 600 grams, and I can feel his ribs when I hold him and his skin is loose. I've been keeping an eye on him for other health problems, but I haven't caught any signs of RI or mouth rot or scale rot or anything. He shed a couple weeks ago; perfect single piece of skin in one go. I don't want to try an assist feed unless I'm convinced he'd too weak to eat otherwise, and he did eat something a couple weeks ago.

Is he going to starve himself to death? Do ball pythons really get so neurotic when they feel threatened that they'll just refuse to eat until they waste away? I really wish I noticed the cat problem much sooner, but I just didn't think of it until I noticed that he's dropped over 10% of his body weight. Up until a couple weeks ago, I just thought he was still off-feed from the winter (it was an especially rough one this year, not that he should know that because his tank temperatures were pretty stable).

Any help, suggestions, moral support if I'm just being impatient, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

[CoolioTiffany]

Try bumping the temps up a bit. On the hot spot try about 90F-92F, and the cool side is a bit too cool, so bump that up to about 80F if you can. At night never let it get below 75F in the enclosure. What are you measuring your temps with?

Can I get some more photos of the enclosure? I need to see what the hides are like and everything in the enclosure to see what the problem could be.

Males generally will go off feed during Winter months, and males will even refuse now. If he took a small rat that one time he should be fine, but dropping about 100g during this time doesn't seem very right. Most will keep their body weight consistent.

Have you tried getting a fecal done? If the snake has parasites it could be the cause of the snake not eating. How does his feces look? Solid, or more liquid than solid?

Does the snake ever pace around the enclosure during daylight hours, or only at night?

[hvincent]

I'm measuring the temps with a little digital ZooMed thermometer; it's got a small probe at the end of a long wire. I generally just move it around to different parts of the tank throughout the day to check on temperatures. I can try and up the temps a bit for the next couple of days to see what happens.

I'll try to get some more pictures of the tank during the day. He left a tiny dime-sized poop after the last feeding he took, and it was mostly solid. His weight loss has been pretty much steady the whole time; I should have thought to save that poop to get a fecal check, but I didn't think about parasites at the time and he's obviously not pooping now since there's no food in him. I got him the full vet check-up when I first got him over a year ago, came up negative on the fecal, but that doesn't really mean anything if he's picked something up since then.

He paces almost every night (sometimes he probably waits until we've all gone to bed); very occasionally I'll see him move during he day, just to go from one hide to another or take a sip of water.

[stevepoppers]

I'll list problems as I read through the post.

1. Too cold. Probably your main problem. They will not eat if they don't think their body is warm enough for their digestive enzymes to work. This is the same reason humans have a core temperature of 98.6. The only difference is the snakes depend on us to provide the proper temperature. Try bumping it up to around 92.
2. Using gauges. These are considered very inaccurate. A widely available model of AccuRite with built-in hydrometer and outside temperature probe is the most recommended.
3. The condensation in your tank could cause mold. Just something to be aware of and keep a close eye on.
4. When snakes go off feed, I've never seen it recommended to just stop trying. He may have decided he would eat sometime in the winter and you never gave him the opportunity.
5. The energetic cat definitely would have made him nervous. It's good that you got him away from it.
6. How long has he been in his new home? At least a week of complete and total alone time is recommended after something like that.

I don't know much about feeding issues, but I'd give him some time in his new home to realize he's safe. That is if you've addressed the temperature issue. In the long run, 30 gallons sounds like a bit much for a ball python and he may have been insecure from the start. If this problem persists, you could try putting him in a sterilite tub from walmart if you can transfer heat sources, etc. Just the tub, substrate, thermometer, hide/s, water.

Good luck.

I'm slow tonight....

[CoolioTiffany]

I'm measuring the temps with a little digital ZooMed thermometer; it's got a small probe at the end of a long wire. I generally just move it around to different parts of the tank throughout the day to check on temperatures. I can try and up the temps a bit for the next couple of days to see what happens.

I'll try to get some more pictures of the tank during the day. He left a tiny dime-sized poop after the last feeding he took, and it was mostly solid. His weight loss has been pretty much steady the whole time; I should have thought to save that poop to get a fecal check, but I didn't think about parasites at the time and he's obviously not pooping now since there's no food in him.

He paces almost every night (sometimes he probably waits until we've all gone to bed); very occasionally I'll see him move during he day, just to go from one hide to another or take a sip of water.

What are you using as far as heating goes? If you're using a UTH, is it controlled by a thermostat?

Parasites may not be it if the poop is solid, I have noticed that an internal parasite infestation will give the snake runny feces.

If he's not pacing around during the day then it could be just because it's still breeding season and he's just off feed or because the temps are too cool.

Once you get the temps raised at the right spot for a few days try to feed him an appropriately sized live rat and see what happens. If the temps were the factor of him not eating then the temp raising could have solved the problem.

[BPelizabeth]

I'll list problems as I read through the post.

1. Too cold. Probably your main problem. They will not eat if they don't think their body is warm enough for their digestive enzymes to work. This is the same reason humans have a core temperature of 98.6. The only difference is the snakes depend on us to provide the proper temperature. Try bumping it up to around 92.
2. Using gauges. These are considered very inaccurate. A widely available model of AccuRite with built-in hydrometer and outside temperature probe is the most recommended.
3. The condensation in your tank could cause mold. Just something to be aware of and keep a close eye on.
4. When snakes go off feed, I've never seen it recommended to just stop trying. He may have decided he would eat sometime in the winter and you never gave him the opportunity.
5. The energetic cat definitely would have made him nervous. It's good that you got him away from it.
6. How long has he been in his new home? At least a week of complete and total alone time is recommended after something like that.

I don't know much about feeding issues, but I'd give him some time in his new home to realize he's safe. That is if you've addressed the temperature issue. In the long run, 30 gallons sounds like a bit much for a ball python and he may have been insecure from the start. If this problem persists, you could try putting him in a sterilite tub from walmart if you can transfer heat sources, etc. Just the tub, substrate, thermometer, hide/s, water.

Good luck.

I'm slow tonight....

Also cover three sides of the tank....offer at night or darken the room. If you are offering live....prekill put in tank, cover the tank and walk away for a couple of hours. If offering FT....hit it with blow dryer right before offering....and follow the same procedure.

[greghall]

If it wont eat live it wont eat dead prey. bump the heat & maybe switch to a small tub.6 months is not that long I have a female still off been 6 months.

[RichsBallPythons]

Keep in mind your warm side temps arent bad but can be better. I keep adults at 89 and babies at 92.

Cool side is 78-80 which is room temp.


Just up temps a bit but not too much as it can also cause shock to the snake with warmer temps. They adapt to the temps youve given, so rise them slowly.

[Gavin Cooper]

If it wont eat live it wont eat dead prey. bump the heat & maybe switch to a small tub.6 months is not that long I have a female still off been 6 months.

I have multiple snake that will shy away from live prey and eat f/t with Burm style feeding response.

I do agree though that 6 months is not that bad. My Ghost was off feed from September last year and took his first rat last weekend. 8 months and he only lost about 5% body weight.


Gavin

[WingedWolfPsion]

It's good that he DID take something. Try another smaller prey item--one the same size or smaller than the one he took before.
I have often found that animals off-feed need a smaller than usual prey item to get started again.