Terry Cullen raided

[bsd13]

Lil Update in the case, Cullen Finally in Wisconsin



http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-100...,6450177.story

Good to hear he's facing the problem. Despite what some might think I hope this all turns out to be a big misunderstanding.

[wilomn]

I think "mistreating" and "neglected" can safely be considered synonymous terms in this instance.

So here's a fact. Jane Flint was arrested for "suspicion of mistreating animals and violating regulations regarding endangered or threatened species". This is according to an official document. An arrest report. Not a document made up by peta or the HSUS but an honest to God document created by an officer of the law. And before someone starts talking about police corruption, don't bother. There's too many agencies involved for it to be the police trying to set someone up.



This next part speaks for itself. Cullen himself claimed not to need a permit for exotics due to a consulting arrangement. The director of the Wisconsin Humane Society says some of the animals might have been covered, but not all of them.

If he claims not to need a permit chances are pretty good he doesn't have one. Time will tell to what extent the animals he kept were or were not covered under the consulting agreement. It will also tell if maybe he misunderstood the extent that the animals were covered under the agreement.



I'm all for giving someone the benefit of the doubt and I understand the desire to circle the wagons to protect one of our own, but it seems like the evidence we have access to is mounting against the guy. No doubt we all look forward to hearing his side of the story, but in a nutshell this is what we have so far -

1) Police served a search warrant and found the place in shambles. I know there's been several comments about how the search warrant is probably illegitimate, but those accusations have no basis on anything solid that I've come across. They appear to be based on emotion and a dislike of peta/hsus in general. Some have even suggested that peta somehow setup Terry Cullen to make him look bad because they don't like people having pets. Which leads me to my next point...

2) The building has been condemned. If a health inspection condemned the building this quickly that a pretty good bet something is really amiss.

A few people have said that the conditions could get bad in very short order with that many animals and too little help. Sure they could get bad, but condemnation indicates a public health hazard. A few piles of snake poops and dead rats don't equate to condemnation. Something had to be going on over the long term.

The question is how long has peta had an inside person going behind Terry Cullen, and Jane Flint spreading poop and the corpses of dead rodents around to the point where the building needs to be condemned?

3) They've removed somewhere between 250 and 300 animals and no reports indicate they were well cared for. Not from the zoo representatives, the police officers, the city workers, the neighbors, or even the humane society. Unless everyone involved is out to get Terry Cullen I'd expect there to be some kind of positive spin on this whole situation in his favor by someone. But I've not heard it, have you?

4) Terry Cullen has himself said he doesn't need permits for the animals. Which is a pretty good indication he doesn't have them. If you claim not to need it you probably won't bother going through the time and expenses to acquire it.

And this is the ONLY possible scenario?

Rather one dimensional, neh?

You see, without knowing, which you don't, all these statements as facts in evidence are..... not facts at all but guesses that you have made based on what you believe without being there, without talking to anyone involved, without any experience with large numbers of exotics but an over abundance of if the guys in charge say it's so then it must be so itis.

I don't have a problem prepping my rope prior to a hanging but I find it rather premature to have the gallows up and the noose hanging before we even know what's really going on.

I'm surprised you don't feel the same way.

[wolfy-hound]

"Suspician of neglect" is not "neglect".

If he was told by an agency that he didn't need permits, then the agency is going to say "well SOME are covered by that.. but not all" then the agency sounds like they are backing out of a previous arrangement.

Again, nothing has said that the animals looked neglected in any of the things we've seen, and since the media seemed disturbed that some animals were housed in plastic bins and water troughs, which WE know are appropriate enclosures, I wouldn't expect for the MEDIA to get anything right.

And the police still haven't said who the person was that they were supposed to be searching for in the first place is. Is it Terry and they just won't say because they are hoping he'll come in if he isn't certain it's him? Or was it some employee and some other people jumped the gun because they saw animals housed in what experianced people KNOW is a proper manner?

Why is the building condemned? And if it's that bad, why isn't there more about the issues of the building? There's no way that dead animals and feces and such could be so bad that the whole building has to be condemned and the neighbors had no idea anything was being housed there. We have a local lady with 15 cats in her house, and you can smell it from the street. And her house isn't condemned.

IF he is guilty of some sexual crime, IF he neglected the animals, or left them in inadequate care to be neglected, IF he did not have permits and was NOT told that he did not need them, IF IF IF..

If he was housing the animals in an area that he was not allowed to do so accordingt o zoming, then yes, they coudl remove them, but the more normal way they do these things is to issue a warning and say "You have to get rid of these animals by XX date". Not wholesale snatching them up and taking off with them.

[bsd13]

And this is the ONLY possible scenario?

Rather one dimensional, neh?

You see, without knowing, which you don't, all these statements as facts in evidence are..... not facts at all but guesses that you have made based on what you believe without being there, without talking to anyone involved, without any experience with large numbers of exotics but an over abundance of if the guys in charge say it's so then it must be so itis.

I don't have a problem prepping my rope prior to a hanging but I find it rather premature to have the gallows up and the noose hanging before we even know what's really going on.

I'm surprised you don't feel the same way.

First off I'm not interested in hanging Terry Cullen any more than you are. I am interested in him being punished IF these accusations are correct. And punished without regard to who he is and/or what he might have done in the "reptile world"

Having said that I don't believe anything is a conspiracy to set Cullen up. The police executed a search warrant totally unrelated to the welfare of these animals, but they found what they found. I'm not in the habit of accusing the police of lying and being part of some kind of a cover up involving a bunch of city agencies, at least one zoo and the Wisconsin humane society that is out to get Terry Cullen.

[wilomn]

I'm not in the habit of accusing

Ahhh, my mistake then.

What DO you call what you've been assuring us must be what has happened and why it happened as you have assured us it has?

[bsd13]

"Suspician of neglect" is not "neglect".

Granted but they wouldn't have arrested her for no reason.

Opinion: The police don't really know what is considered neglect in regards to reptiles so they arrested her while the investigate and find out.

If he was told by an agency that he didn't need permits, then the agency is going to say "well SOME are covered by that.. but not all" then the agency sounds like they are backing out of a previous arrangement.

Or he took a great amount of liberty with the agreement, far beyond what was intended when it was made.

Again, nothing has said that the animals looked neglected in any of the things we've seen, and since the media seemed disturbed that some animals were housed in plastic bins and water troughs, which WE know are appropriate enclosures, I wouldn't expect for the MEDIA to get anything right.

Well there is this:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/93704999.html
The decomposed bodies of several animals were found in the building, Berg said. Among the living animals, some were in "subpar condition," but most should be able to make a full recovery, Christie said.

The inside of the brick building was a cluttered mess of animal cages and tanks, according to police officers, firefighters and others who had been inside.

Many reptiles were kept in horse troughs filled with foul water, Berg said.

Police officers spotted a 4-foot crocodile loose in the building when they entered, said Richard Kaiser, chief of the Milwaukee Fire Department's fourth battalion.

"I have not seen this many animals or the conditions we encountered in my career, and I've been here 25 years," said Kaiser, who said the inside of the building reeked.

*Christie is Jay Christie president and ceo of the Racine zoo
* Berg is Craig Berg curator of reptiles and aquarium at the Milwaukee County Zoo
*Kaiser is Richard Kaiser, chief of the Milwaukee Fire Department's fourth battalion

And the police still haven't said who the person was that they were supposed to be searching for in the first place is. Is it Terry and they just won't say because they are hoping he'll come in if he isn't certain it's him? Or was it some employee and some other people jumped the gun because they
saw animals housed in what experianced people KNOW is a proper manner?

The warrant search is mutually exclusive from the animals. One has no bearing on another. If the police kick in a persons door with a warrant searching for a missing child even if they find no child, or even evidence of a missing child the meth lab in the basement is going to get them in trouble regardless.

It's also an active warrant at this point as far we know. So why would they announce to the world the man or woman they hunting? That doesn't even make sense.

Why is the building condemned? And if it's that bad, why isn't there more about the issues of the building? There's no way that dead animals and feces and such could be so bad that the whole building has to be condemned and the neighbors had no idea anything was being housed there. We have a local lady with 15 cats in her house, and you can smell it from the street. And her house isn't condemned.

You'll have to ask the inspectors why they don't condemn your neighbors house. Have you called and asked them to go take a look at it or otherwise reported her? Do they know about the problem?

As for Terry Cullen's building, it was condemned because someone with a lot more knowledge than myself (and probably you) when it comes to these kind of things made an educated determination that it needed to be condemned.

IF he is guilty of some sexual crime, IF he neglected the animals, or left them in inadequate care to be neglected, IF he did not have permits and was NOT told that he did not need them, IF IF IF..

Indeed if.

If he was housing the animals in an area that he was not allowed to do so accordingt o zoming, then yes, they coudl remove them, but the more normal way they do these things is to issue a warning and say "You have to get rid of these animals by XX date". Not wholesale snatching them up and taking off with them.

Every city and state works differently. I'm going to assume that they are following the procedures set for the city of Milwaukee

[bsd13]

Ahhh, my mistake then.

What DO you call what you've been assuring us must be what has happened and why it happened as you have assured us it has?

Don't misquote people. It makes it look like they said something they didn't. What I said was: I'm not in the habit of accusing the police of lying and being part of some kind of a cover up involving a bunch of city agencies, at least one zoo and the Wisconsin humane society that is out to get Terry Cullen.

[wilomn]

Don't misquote people. It makes it look like they said something they didn't. What I said was: I'm not in the habit of accusing the police of lying and being part of some kind of a cover up involving a bunch of city agencies, at least one zoo and the Wisconsin humane society that is out to get Terry Cullen.

And what I heard was, "I'm not in the habit of questioning those in authority. In fact, I will agree to follow their lead even if there is no proof to substantiate any claims at the time I make them simply because they have said it is so, which must be true so I will tell you it's true because I think it is so it must be."

Heh, not at all alike.

The fault must be mine though, no doubt of that.

[bsd13]

And what I heard was, "I'm not in the habit of questioning those in authority. In fact, I will agree to follow their lead even if there is no proof to substantiate any claims at the time I make them simply because they have said it is so, which must be true so I will tell you it's true because I think it is so it must be."

Heh, not at all alike.

The fault must be mine though, no doubt of that.

Then you need to get your hearing checked if that's what you heard. There's a time and a place to question "authority". There are reasons to question how they've conducted themselves. Case in point: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/05/18/...ex.html?hpt=T2

There's no indication anywhere that they did anything wrong in this case. Nothing at all. So why would I question them in this case? Do you have a reason aside from they are the authorities and we just shouldn't ever trust the authorities?

You're the one questioning their integrity. I'm not.

What facts do you have to show anyone that they have somehow mishandled this incident, or lied, or obfuscated anything in regards to it?

[blackcrystal22]

Here's the entire statement from Terry Cullen:

"I have been trying to deal with this Machiavellian nightmare while out of town and gravely ill. Far from "being on the run" I have been back in town with my attorneys for the past two days engaged in the appropriate, necessary legal formalities. I am overwhelmingly concerned for the well being of our animals; the terrible stresses that they have been subjected to and their transport to utterly unfamiliar surroundings. My heart truly breaks at the very thought of the loss of my best friends and loyal companions, Pogo and Kong, our two dogs. You have no concept of our pain at their loss. While the much of the media has vilified and excoriated me with inaccuracies, half-truths and shameful sensationalism, the truth lies far, far from their irresponsible, knee-jerk rantings. Jane and I have devoted our all to conservation. Our shattered lives and reputations have been our reward."
Terry Cullen