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BPnet Veteran
Rules of inbreeding?
So Im reading alot on morph lines, how colors and combos came about and of course theres referances to breeding daughters back to fathers, sons to mothers and so on.
My question is, whats considered acceptable inbreeding and where should a line be drawn for the sake of the animals? Not their morality of course I know they dont care, but their over all health.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Sariel For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010)
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Re: Rules of inbreeding?
Rule #1: breeding siblings is worse than child to parent
Rule #2: Cross out proven genes as much as possible
That's about it. I haven't personally seen any issues caused by inbreeding. All the issues that were supposedly due to inbreeding (caramels kinking, spiders wobbling) have been pretty much accepted by the community as being caused by the morph gene, thus impossible to breed out.
With morphs, we're dealing with a fairly select group of animals. Even with WCs coming into the country, the focus is more and more on morph combos. This is a fairly strong limit on the genetic diversity, so inbreeding is inevitable even without direct sibling to sibling or parent to child breeding.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mainbutter For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010),Sariel (02-11-2010)
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Re: Rules of inbreeding?
Originally Posted by mainbutter
Rule #1: breeding siblings is worse than child to parent
I've seen this before, but I'd like to know WHY? Or see a source.
I've tried to figure it out before, but it seems to me like on average it is the same. Parent/child breedings will always have exactly 50% of the same genetic material. Siblings/sibling breedings could, in theory, have anywhere between 0-100% of the same genetic material, but it should be 50% on average. So what makes it worse?
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The Following User Says Thank You to kc261 For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010)
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Re: Rules of inbreeding?
Originally Posted by kc261
I've seen this before, but I'd like to know WHY? Or see a source.
I've tried to figure it out before, but it seems to me like on average it is the same. Parent/child breedings will always have exactly 50% of the same genetic material. Siblings/sibling breedings could, in theory, have anywhere between 0-100% of the same genetic material, but it should be 50% on average. So what makes it worse?
You don't want your son and daughter mating do you? That's why its so much worse.
6.5.15 Animals
1.2 Pomeranian's
0.1.15 Tropical Fish
2.2 Snakes:
0.1 2009 100% Het Piebald
0.1 Normal
1.0 Green Tree Python
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
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The Following User Says Thank You to steveboos For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010)
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Re: Rules of inbreeding?
Stop when your hatchlings turn into killer Burmese hybrids.
(j/k).
There aren't any rules, because no one yet knows how much inbreeding these animals can tolerate before detrimental traits such as poor fertility and deformities crop up. The answer is 'more than mammals', we know that much at least. Use common sense, and don't carry it on for numerous generations.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to WingedWolfPsion For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010),Sariel (02-11-2010)
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BPnet Veteran
Re: Rules of inbreeding?
Originally Posted by steveboos
You don't want your son and daughter mating do you? That's why its so much worse.
They dont want to mate their son or daughter either.
I think the question is, whats the genetic draw back of siblings mating versus a parent to the offspring.
Last edited by Sariel; 02-11-2010 at 02:44 PM.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Sariel For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010)
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BPnet Veteran
Re: Rules of inbreeding?
Originally Posted by steveboos
You don't want your son and daughter mating do you? That's why its so much worse.
yea but same could be as the question you as a parent wouldnt wanna mate with your son or daughter would you?
1.1 Normal Ball, 1.0 Db Het Pied Hypo,
1.1 100% Het Pied, 0.1 Super Pastel, 1.0 Mojave
1.0 Pastel Yellow Belly, 0.2 Yellow Belly, 0.1 Red tail boa
0.0.1 Grey band king snake, 1.0 Leopard Gecko
Miss my Ferret alot wish i didn't have to give her up
1.1 het red axanthic, 1.0 albino, 1.0 black pastel
1.0 woma, 1.0 pinstripe, 0.1 pastel
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The Following User Says Thank You to Monty For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010)
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BPnet Veteran
Re: Rules of inbreeding?
Originally Posted by Monty
yea but same could be as the question you as a parent wouldnt wanna mate with your son or daughter would you?
We can always hope!!
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The Following User Says Thank You to Sariel For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010)
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BPnet Veteran
1.1 Normal Ball, 1.0 Db Het Pied Hypo,
1.1 100% Het Pied, 0.1 Super Pastel, 1.0 Mojave
1.0 Pastel Yellow Belly, 0.2 Yellow Belly, 0.1 Red tail boa
0.0.1 Grey band king snake, 1.0 Leopard Gecko
Miss my Ferret alot wish i didn't have to give her up
1.1 het red axanthic, 1.0 albino, 1.0 black pastel
1.0 woma, 1.0 pinstripe, 0.1 pastel
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The Following User Says Thank You to Monty For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010)
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Re: Rules of inbreeding?
From what I have been able to gather up on this subject is that no more than 5 generations should be line bred. I do not know why it was 5 generations and honestly I can not remember where I saw that but for me personally I only do 3 generations and then out cross. For example Male 1 and Female 1 breed, Baby 1 that is held back is bred to Female 1, Baby 2 is held back and bred to Baby 1 The resulting offspring are then bred to dofferent animals that are not related or to beter state that not directly related within 5 generations to the best of my knowledge.
The tricky part is when you have 1 Male and 3 Females because then you could take a baby from Female on and breed it to a baby frome Female 2 and so on which in my mind would be very different only because they would have different geentics from the different Females used for the breedings.
Another tricky one is multiple sire clutches.... Yeah lets not get into that part of it.
Basically what everyone is saying is that the inbreeding/line breeding can be done a lot of times and so far nothing has been seen that would indicate that this is bad for the snakes but the long term effects have not been seen yet as these animals have a long life span.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to T&C Exotics For This Useful Post:
ParmleyStyle (02-16-2010),Sariel (02-11-2010)
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