New Year's Puppies

[Bruce Whitehead]

Brook, I know this is something you are passionate about, and I can respect that, but I really do not see Jason as some beast.

I say this not because I am sticking up for a friend, but rather I know him well... as a lover of his animals. I know Jason and his family have rehabbed many animals that i love (horses being one, and an animal that is NOT cheap to take on).

I have had animals that go in and out of heat with no chance of spaying in between, funny thing about animals, we cannot control that all the time, can we?

I once had a cat that was unspayable for close to two years... so blanket assumptions do not sit well with me (and yes, I have made MORE than my share over the years).

Conversely, I do not think that people need to address every assumption made about them. I think Jason has been very dignified in this thread, and I do commend him for that.

This is something I have seen so many times come up, that I can not even count. Everytime someone breeds a dog, the rescuers come out to voice their opinions. As someone that has invested undue time, money, and resources in rehabbing sick and dying snakes/reptiles I can relate.

But to draw a comparison between those that adopt a new pup and those that will adopt a rescue/shelter dog is not even close to being congruent. Even as someone that breeds reptiles I know that.

As people that breed animals we accept a very heavy price for what we can and cannot control. We safeguard as much as we can and we hope for the best, because we love this/these hobbies and our animals, but it is NOT failproof and we also accept a huge degree for what we cannot control.

Everytime I hold a burned and scarred snake I do not blame the breeder, I look to the person that had that animal and subjected it to such immense negligience. I focus my attention on educating new keepers, and teaching others how to buy, evaluate and invest responsibly. And yes... if you are going to be caring for an animal for 5-40 years, they are an investment.

Do we blame those that pass by an *inferior* animal. Never.

Yet we champion those that purchase purebred genetically weak progeny? It does not make sense to me. I am not saying that in any way to be difficult, I truly have never grasped that analogy. If you want genetically suscepticle (sp?) animals look no further than any purebred dog show for a never-ending list of animals with deep-rooted genetic inbred defects.

Fluctuating patella anyone? (to name just one). Shall we stop breeding the dogs entirely since it is such a high occurrence? (mark my vote as YES) Anyone breeding them is both negligent and grossly incompetent... i mean, regardless of how many stellar examples of the breed that are produced right?

Where do you think all those PUREBREDS are going when they are not fit for the ring? Yep, to your shelters and your inexperienced owners, who then saddle bills of THOUSANDS to fix the PURE breeding that is so cachet.

If a dog cannot even clean its own eyes without my help, then yeah...

I hope this response is as ambivalent as I feel. We all have an animal that inspires us to fight for them, and mine are snakes, yours is dogs.

Respectfully,
Bruce (AKA loftlizard)

P.S: I may not be around much (at all) but RZ AKA "the green screen" was where I learned to care for my beloved Ash, and I will always pay that forward.

[catawhat75]

Bruce, that was a very well thought out and worded response.

[Bruce Whitehead]

Bruce, that was a very well thought out and worded response.

Thank you for that... I hesitate these days to post as I truly lack the time or energy to follow threads to completions (AKA death).

If I have learned nothing in my years online it is that there are many ways to raise *insert animal of passion here*...

Bruce

[aaramire]

The point that cata and Brook are trying to make is that breeding a female dog more then once a year can be VERY harmful to her health. We have already established our opinions on breeding in general when there are dogs to be adopted at shelters. I think that is clear. I also agree with Bruce on the fact that purebreds can be genetic trainwrecks, and its a sad thing to see. I work at a vet clinic and I cant tell you the countless numbers of golden retrievers I see with severe hip problems, and bulldogs who cant breathe because of the structure of their brachycephalic noses, etc. But I think all these problems stem from the fact that dogs are overpopulated, over-bred, and inbred. So why keep breeding then? Why make more dogs to contribute to the problem? It makes no sense to me. Go to a shelter, and save a life. Its worth it.

[starrlamia]

I am sad that people are being rude, it does negate the facts, and I hope I did not come across rude, i tried to come off as passionate and put that into how important the facts that presented are.

Do you really think that the millions of dogs produced every year by irresponsible breeders who end up dying in shelters are a result of pet owners who mistreat their animals? Yah some are. But the biggest problem out there are the people who think they have a great pet and want to see little offspring running around. Im glad the OP is good to his pets, maybe he can open his eyes to the huge overpopulation problem of dogs and realize that not breeding like he is, would be the kindest thing he can do for dogs.

Yep some purebreds have genetic problems. But do you really think that breeding mutts isnt passing off those same genetic traits? Just because it is a mixed breed doesnt mean it wont inherit some of the bad genetics of the breeds it is a mix of. This is also why it is very important for a breeder to test their dogs to weed out those genetic traits. Responsible breeders do this, but unfortunately the irresponsible breeders vastly outnumber responsible ones and so breeds are abound with these horrible problems

Breeding a dog back to back is pretty awful. It is extremely hard on their bodies.

[accidental777]

Wow.....ok, I obviously was not very clear the first time.
I did not mean we should ignore a problem. If you are truly passionate about changing something go for it. Find out ways to get better legislation in order. Education also plays a big role in all of this. There are other ways to deal with issues than making yourself look bad. That really doesn't do anyone much good does it?
Going around an bashing people on forums can make people tune you out pretty quickly. Maybe you could just be more tactful about how you are expressing your facts and opinions. This may perhaps in turn make people more receptive. Besides, in my honest opinion, I think the more people you can rally together the better off the cause will be. If you go around scaring people off you may end up very alone.

[dr del]

Hi,

The part that I found chode-ey is that I personally believe you went down to his level by talking down to him as if he was a mind challenged child.

I agree with you that the information he spilled about the rep points was largely incorrect.

Later, Matt

Your right - starting or inflaming a situation then lying/ playing the victim card is one of my hot button topics and I should have taken that into consideration and been less insulting in my reply.

But please don't use the word "chode-ey" - urban dictionary is not age restricted.

There are plenty of words in the english language you could have used that don't skirt quite so close to the infractable.


dr del

[sekaiNdobes]

I also agree with Bruce on the fact that purebreds can be genetic trainwrecks, and its a sad thing to see.

This is true. However, *responsible* breeders are working very hard to change this. Not only are responsible breeders breeding away from health problems, but they are active in their breed clubs and collectively donate thousans, even millions of dollars to help fund research to make ALL dogs healthier. Our breed club (the DPCA) is reknowned for making health a priority, and supporting research that is trying to make all dogs healthier.

How can a litter whose pedigree has never been health-tested be assumed to be healthy?

If the OP had done full health testing, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But as it stands, the parents of this litter have no health testing. And that truly is sad.

[sekaiNdobes]

...we cannot control that all the time, can we?

Yes, we can - it's called responsible ownership. I've had intact dogs in my house for more than 7 years, and not once have we had an accident. It's actually not very hard.

Fluctuating patella anyone? (to name just one).

Actually, it's luxating patellas - and responsible breeders are trying very hard to eliminate it. BYBs are not.

Where do you think all those PUREBREDS are going when they are not fit for the ring? Yep, to your shelters and your inexperienced owners

False. Pet quality puppies go to pet homes. Responsible breeders do everything in their power to prevent their dogs from being dumped in shelters, and when one does end up in a shelter they pull them. Responsible breeders take back any dog, at any time. Responsibly bred puppies come with contracts, and buyers are thoroughly screened. I would be curious to know what kind of application process the OP has for his puppies. Probably nothing near the requirements of responsible breeders.