Congressional Budget Office to "Score" HR2811

[I<3Dreamsicles]

"Not really" would be the important part there. "Not really", but somewhat. They have some serious restrictions on them, especially on guns. Yes, as crazy as it sounds to some people, I am against those licenses too. But that's not the point of this particular discussion. What it boils down to, and keep in mind this is only my opinion, is that I don't feel the need to acquire permission from some bureaucrat to own a kingsnake, or a ball python, or a 20 foot retic. That's my business, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Like I said though, just my opinion.

So with that mind set your saying anyone should be able to drive a car, thats their buisness. Even if they drive drunk??? What about if they are a kid? 12 years old. No need for a license, hey no age limit. Who cares, they havent hurt anyone -- YET --
Or if a burm owner doenst properly secure its cage??? Or you can own a gun as long as you dont hurt anyone. Guns go off on accident.
The thing is STUFF happens. Thats why there are rules and regulations to prevent it.

Are you against restrictions that prevent felons from owning guns? What about people with violent a history?
And driving license restrictions really arent very serious. All you have to do is prove you can operate a vehicle with out crashing it, with in what... 3 minutes of a driving test? Then YOU PASS! Your are now deemed skilled enough to drive anywhere at any time because of those three minutes of driving well.

[MattU]

So with that mind set your saying anyone should be able to drive a car, thats their buisness. Even if they drive drunk??? What about if they are a kid? 12 years old. No need for a license, hey no age limit. Who cares, they havent hurt anyone -- YET --
Or if a burm owner doenst properly secure its cage??? Or you can own a gun as long as you dont hurt anyone. Guns go off on accident.
The thing is STUFF happens. Thats why there are rules and regulations to prevent it.

Are you against restrictions that prevent felons from owning guns? What about people with violent a history?
And driving license restrictions really arent very serious. All you have to do is prove you can operate a vehicle with out crashing it, with in what... 3 minutes of a driving test? Then YOU PASS! Your are now deemed skilled enough to drive anywhere at any time because of those three minutes of driving well.

Ha I get this reaction a lot. I said nothing about drunk driving though, if you do that, and youre obviously a danger or if you harm some one, you should pay the price. I would hope the parents of any twelve year old would not allow them to drive. Yes guns can go off an accident. How would a license stop that? It can't. Nothing can stop accidents except being in a locked padded room. People with a violent history- No, im not necessarily against those laws. You're right about driving license requirements being pretty slack. What's the point of even having them? It's nothing more than another tax, and it has not helped a thing.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, if we all thought the same it'd be a pretty boring world

[I<3Dreamsicles]

Ha I get this reaction a lot. I said nothing about drunk driving though, if you do that, and youre obviously a danger or if you harm some one, you should pay the price. I would hope the parents of any twelve year old would not allow them to drive. Yes guns can go off an accident. How would a license stop that? It can't. Nothing can stop accidents except being in a locked padded room. People with a violent history- No, im not necessarily against those laws. You're right about driving license requirements being pretty slack. What's the point of even having them? It's nothing more than another tax, and it has not helped a thing.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, if we all thought the same it'd be a pretty boring world

Yes but what your saying is someone who is drunk could drive. Its their buisness. They havent hurt anyone yet. Just like your snake hasnt either. But it CAN. If you act like this it is like saying your burm is a danger. You have to pay the price. It hasnt done anything yet but it can, just like a drunk driver. Get what im saying??? The permit/license will hopefully PREVENT IT before it happens.

A license wouldnt stop a gun going off, im just saying crap happens. just becuase it did happen doesnt make it your fault. You are saying to just wait for an accident to happen then move into action instead of preventing these accidents first. With a gun license the owner actually LEARNS some stuff about how to deal with guns and how to hold them and how to make sure they are un loaded and always on saftey. Making them, a person with a license, a safer owner/ user of a gun.

With a large snake being a possible danger, you stop accidents before they happen. Prevent irresponsible people from being able to own them instead of WAITING for them to do something idiotic and give the media something else to talk about hurting reptile owners reputations, and feeding people some bull hockey that theyre going to believe becuase they heard it on the news, so of course its a fact. (eye roll)

I dont think I can explain it much more.

and well, driving licenses at least stop a very few amount of people who are stupid enough to not know how to drive from being on the streets. It may be slack but it still does a little bit.

[MattU]

Yes but what your saying is someone who is drunk could drive. Its their buisness. They havent hurt anyone yet. Just like your snake hasnt either. But it CAN. If you act like this it is like saying your burm is a danger. You have to pay the price. It hasnt done anything yet but it can, just like a drunk driver. Get what im saying??? The permit/license will hopefully PREVENT IT before it happens.

A license wouldnt stop a gun going off, im just saying crap happens. just becuase it did happen doesnt make it your fault. You are saying to just wait for an accident to happen then move into action instead of preventing these accidents first. With a gun license the owner actually LEARNS some stuff about how to deal with guns and how to hold them and how to make sure they are un loaded and always on saftey. Making them, a person with a license, a safer owner/ user of a gun.

With a large snake being a possible danger, you stop accidents before they happen. Prevent irresponsible people from being able to own them instead of WAITING for them to do something idiotic and give the media something else to talk about hurting reptile owners reputations, and feeding people some bull hockey that theyre going to believe becuase they heard it on the news, so of course its a fact.

I dont think I can explain it much more.

Worry not, I've understood your position from the beginning. It's the position of many people. I just happen to have a different view on things. I tend to be pretty anti-government. Before this gets heated though, I'm going to bed lol. Thanks for the discussion!

[I<3Dreamsicles]

Worry not, I've understood your position from the beginning. It's the position of many people. I just happen to have a different view on things. I tend to be pretty anti-government. Before this gets heated though, I'm going to bed lol. Thanks for the discussion!

woot anarchy.
i need bed too.

[mainbutter]

So with that mind set your saying anyone should be able to drive a car, thats their buisness. Even if they drive drunk??? What about if they are a kid? 12 years old. No need for a license, hey no age limit. Who cares, they havent hurt anyone -- YET --
Or if a burm owner doenst properly secure its cage??? Or you can own a gun as long as you dont hurt anyone. Guns go off on accident.
The thing is STUFF happens. Thats why there are rules and regulations to prevent it.

I believe the following two statistics are accurate:

45 thousand americans die in car crashes every year.

12 people TOTAL in the past ~20 years have died from captive reptiles. This includes venomous reptiles and salmonella infections. And unless I'm mistaken, all of those people have been the owners of the animals or residents where the animal resided.

Now the number of people that drive far outweighs the number of dangerous reptiles kept privately, but I still believe that statistically, driving is far more dangerous than keeping reptiles with the ability to kill humans.

The big issue for me is that for the most part, keeping dangerous reptiles is not dangerous to the community at large. The same cannot be said for driving, or even firearms. When you drive, you put thousands of people at risk. Just think of all the pedestrians and all the other cars around.

You don't need a license to operate vehicles on private property, or carry firearms on private property either.

The laws regarding purchasing firearms are to fight crime. We already have laws regarding purchasing reptiles and preventing reptile-related crime. The thing is that reptile-related crime is usually related to illegal importation/exportation, which is directly related to conserving wildlife.

Until dangerous reptiles start attacking and killing random people in public, I'm not going to be in favor of legislation based on the argument of safety.

[I<3Dreamsicles]

I believe the following two statistics are accurate:

45 thousand americans die in car crashes every year.

12 people TOTAL in the past ~20 years have died from captive reptiles. This includes venomous reptiles and salmonella infections. And unless I'm mistaken, all of those people have been the owners of the animals or residents where the animal resided.

Now the number of people that drive far outweighs the number of dangerous reptiles kept privately, but I still believe that statistically, driving is far more dangerous than keeping reptiles with the ability to kill humans.

The big issue for me is that for the most part, keeping dangerous reptiles is not dangerous to the community at large. The same cannot be said for driving, or even firearms. When you drive, you put thousands of people at risk. Just think of all the pedestrians and all the other cars around.

You don't need a license to operate vehicles on private property, or carry firearms on private property either.

The laws regarding purchasing firearms are to fight crime. We already have laws regarding purchasing reptiles and preventing reptile-related crime. The thing is that reptile-related crime is usually related to illegal importation/exportation, which is directly related to conserving wildlife.

Until dangerous reptiles start attacking and killing random people in public, I'm not going to be in favor of legislation based on the argument of safety.

I know that the amount of deaths is way less but I was just making a point of the reasons why to have a license or not. To prevent stuff. Thats how the government would see it.

If you dont need a license to operate a vehicle on private property how come you can get a DUI on your own property? Its your property. And you may not need one to carry a gun but you do need one to own a gun.

Enough babbling about cars and guns now im getting to confused.
and tired........

Im not in favor of the legislation either. All i said is that, that is what they should push for. The way it would be from what im saying is alot better then what they are making it now. Would you rather have all pythons illegal as opposed to a permit or license for large snakes???????????????

[mainbutter]

You're right about driving license requirements being pretty slack. What's the point of even having them? It's nothing more than another tax, and it has not helped a thing.

The purpose of a driver's license goes beyond a pre-emptive verification of safe driving ability.

First and foremost it is legal, state-issued photo identification. I could write a college level thesis for a politics class on the value of legal, tamper-resistant government issued photo identification.

Second of all, despite being a "license", the theory behind the driver's licensing is still NOT pre-emptive verification of safe driving ability, but an ability of the government to revoke driving privileges after infringement of safe driving. This is why it is so easy to get your license, but so hard to get it back after you lose it.

[mainbutter]

And you may not need one to carry a gun but you do need one to own a gun.

I don't. In Minnesota I need permission from the local police department in the county I reside in to purchase assault rifles or handguns, but I don't need to keep up that license to continue owning those firearms, it is only a license to PURCHASE, not to own. This is to prevent illegal trade. When that license expires, I can't buy any more handguns/assault rifles without renewing it, but I can continue to own and use the firearms I have already purchased without renewing it.

In addition, shotguns and non-assualt rifles require no permit whatsoever. I just have to fill out a quick piece of paperwork that warns felons against purchasing firearms as it's illegal, and show my ID proving that I am who I say I am so they can double check I'm not a felon. I suppose I do need to be 18 years old, so yes there are age limits for both driving and firearms, and that argument does hold a bit of water in regards to dangerous reptiles. But still, there is no "licensing" for firearm OWNERSHIP, at least not in my state.

[nixer]

you dont need a license to purchase guns period in many many states.
they dont stop crime period especially that way more guns that are in crimes are purchased illegally or stolen. also there is many states that want to limit issuing of licenses every year and attempting to put more requirements on them.

drivers licenses dont stop drunk driving or any other illegal acts. also not having a license does not make ppl stop driving.

both of which seem to keep going up in price. both of these are designed for tracking of people with said items.

but then again im also against the whole safety based law system that we seem to have fell into. i mean really statistically the more of anything you have the more accidents/incidents there will be.

as i stated before look at guam they have a reptile permit system but they also stated publicly that they do not/will not approve them.

at the same time being that many many ppl jsut in this forum keep their snakes at different temps, different types of caging, feed different schedules and different feeders. who is to say what they tell you is really a safe economical way to keep your reptiles. what if they say that a plastic tub isnt secure enough for any reptile? what if they say a burm needs cage thats equal to its length? who would have room for a cage thats 18' long!!! also just look at the current interviews with these supposed "biologists" and their misinformation that they continually fling on the news. seriously this is the stupidity that licensing can bring upon.