TOFFEE Ball PROVEN

[Wh00h0069]

Grats!! Can't wait to see updated pics as it matures.

[Toronto Python Gurus]

I have seen the Toffee in person at the CRBE a couple weeks ago and they do kinda have red eyes, but they are more of like a ruby red rather than the red eyes albinos have. From the OP's first pics those are definately Albinos I don't see them changing in colour that much as they mature, but I guess only time will tell

[blackcrystal22]

I'm gonna side with the under dog in this whole thing(if he proves to be right, he will definately be the top dawg ). I know you all have seen the thread about a spider that all of a sudden lost all yellow and brown pigment after one shed....Right?? Why do you think it is impossible for this snake to change over a year or so? I have a pastel female who has changed tremendously over the last few sheds. Not to mention, the lavender albino will change a good deal over time also. You all don't have to hate him because you covet HIS goods. Wish him well! Remember, if it proves out, he will be picking and choosing who they go to. Most important of all he will set "the" price!!!!! Nice babies man! Hope it works out for you.

I don't understand.. no one is siding anything. We're giving opinions as to if it's a toffee or not because we do not see a toffee there, we're not saying he's wrong, we're just saying what we see from the experience of everyone here.

I'd like someone who has produced Toffees previously to chime in and show us their hatchling pictures, that would help I think.

[MarkS]

I'd like someone who has produced Toffees previously to chime in and show us their hatchling pictures, that would help I think.

Well, that's kind of the whole point of this thread, he IS the first to produce them from this particular line. Whether or not he got what he thinks he has will have to wait to see if they color up or not.

[TheReptileEnthusiast]

Yeah.. That's a good idea, as it looks to be that someone is trying to pull something over on someone. lol Lots of possibilities there

I think this ^ is the statement some are calling a little harsh or accusatory. Also, the OP has already stated that there are no other photos of newborn toffees because these are the first produced. The other photos that were posted were candies, which cannot be proven as the same as toffees until someone breeds a candy to a toffee. Also, none of the photos of candies appeared to be fresh hatchlings, as has also been previously stated.

Good luck to the OP, and can't wait to see some photos after a few sheds!

[Toronto Python Gurus]

I don't understand.. no one is siding anything. We're giving opinions as to if it's a toffee or not because we do not see a toffee there, we're not saying he's wrong, we're just saying what we see from the experience of everyone here.

I'd like someone who has produced Toffees previously to chime in and show us their hatchling pictures, that would help I think.

Craig Stewart from The Urban Python here is Canada is the only one I know who is working with Toffees, I think this uncoming breeding season will be his first in proving the gene out(if he does) I know that in the past he has done alot of Toffee x Normal breedings just to make lots of hets. I'm sure he has mixed the Toffee with other morphs to make them hets aswell but you would have to ask him to find out.

He acquired the Toffee in 2005 and bred it for the first time in 2007 to make the hets. Now those hets would be from a Toffee x Normal breeding as far as I know. To make a Toffee from picking up a pair of those 2007 hets it might take a few years for them to get to breeding size than prove them out. I think if anyone would have done it, it would have been him and I haven't heard/seen anything yet from him. I think this 2009/2010 season will be the first season he proves one out if he does.

Now I'm not sure if the OP got the hets directly from Craig at Urban or if he bought them off someone who says they got them from Craig. Either way I don't think Craig let many of them go not to mention the $5,500/male $13,500/female price tags. which i think he sold last year. Maybe the OP got scammed and got het albinos, or maybe he really did get the Hets directly from Craig and had het albinos already and got them mixed up some how. Who knows even a Het albino x Het Toffee could have produced an Albino I mean nobody really knows the Genetics behind the Toffee yet anyways I mean the original Toffee was a CH baby that Craig got from the US that the US got from Africa, these are just ideas. But in the end to get to the bottom of this the best thing to do would be to contact Craig himself becuase nobody would know better than him and until someone talks to him everyone is just throwing out ideas/guessing.

[icygirl]

Not that I know much about this morph, but here's something that confuses me about this thread...

If it colours up then great, if it doesn't then either way, its proven and as I have a guarantee stating "The long and short of it is we have no doubt that the Toffee Ball is a simple recessive mutation and we will stand behind that with a full money back guarantee" then I get my money back!!

How can Urban Python be 100% sure that toffee is simple recessive, if they have only produced "hets" and no actual toffees? Unless they are assuming that Toffee and Candy are the same thing?

[Patrick Long]

I really want to eat my words and say

"HOT DAMN thats a bad arse TOFFEE"

But the way i see it, its just reduced pattern albinos.

No one is bashing, no one is hating. We are just in Disbelief.

[SlitherinSisters]

Not that I know much about this morph, but here's something that confuses me about this thread...



How can Urban Python be 100% sure that toffee is simple recessive, if they have only produced "hets" and no actual toffees? Unless they are assuming that Toffee and Candy are the same thing?

That's what I was thinking. It could be one of those, what I would call paradox morphs, that shows up in Africa and the "morph" dies with that one snake. For example you breed two paradox albinos, that look like they could be a new morph, and you never prove it out, you never get hets-you might think you have hets, you try and try to prove out the hets, and nothing..... *sigh* (just look at all the unproved one-of-a-kind imported "morphs" ralph davis has on his website, some of those have been in the making for years and still aren't proven-IMO paradox morphs)

I'm excited to see if Craig gets any toffees this coming season.

[TheReptileEnthusiast]

I really want to eat my words and say

"HOT DAMN thats a bad arse TOFFEE"

But the way i see it, its just reduced pattern albinos.

No one is bashing, no one is hating. We are just in Disbelief.

I don't feel you bashed anyone Patrick, but there has been at least one comment from another poster that I would classify as bashing.