Culling Healthy Animals

[JLC]

No not at all. I am saying don't beat me up when I am doing what I think is better for the animals and the hobby. A debate means you guys argue your points, and I argue mine. I am supposed to try to convince you...that my job as the debator.

And I think the easy way is to take all your unwanted animals and blow them out for $10 to every kid who probalby wants a pythons when he's 15...but when he's 20...he can't get rid of it...then what happens? Thats all I am saying...there is life for these animals after they leave your possesion..that doesn't make you less responsible for them...you created them. So what happens to them begins, and ends, because of you.

S~

Fair enough.

I think your argument about the possibility of an animal ending up unwanted and therefore is better off dead is completely illogical, though. And given all you've said so far, my impression is not of someone truly trying to figure out what is best for the animals or for the "industry"...but someone trying to justify his own lazy choices in dealing with extra babies.

If you feel that strongly that death is preferable to a chance at life as a pet in someone's home, then maybe you shouldn't be producing any at all? ALL the animals you produce and allow out of your own personal sphere of responsibility are now at risk for being neglected, abused, and abandoned. How "pretty" you judge one animal to be over another has very little to do with those chances. People spend lots of money on expensive toys all the time and then neglect and abandon them when they get bored with them. Why should your "pretty" snakes be any different? Why should they not just get put down for no other reason than that they were born at your direction???

[MsPrada]

Where I come from, responsible breeders let their customers know that any animal they produce is welcome back at any point. Selling animals comes with moral responsibilities and making sure that animals you produce always have a home must be at the top of the list.

You produced them, and inevitably you're responsible for their lives ... forever.

Blessings,

-adam

x2. I know dog breeders that do the same. You can't keep it, you can bring it back. The person I got my NORMAL from had a customer that went into the armed forces and she took the snake back and found a new home and a new caretaker, I.E me.

[ShawnC]

I was not trying to insult you at all. It's a fairly simple concept, thats the only point I was making. I don't think I singled you out unfairly, but since you brought up the question, it's fair to answer it.

S~

[MsPrada]

However, you didn't answer it. I asked for proof, of which you offered none. Thus, it is not as simple a concept as you believe.

[ShawnC]

[QUOTE=JLC;1163080]Fair enough.

I think your argument about the possibility of an animal ending up unwanted and therefore is better off dead is completely illogical, though. And given all you've said so far, my impression is not of someone truly trying to figure out what is best for the animals or for the "industry"...but someone trying to justify his own lazy choices in dealing with extra babies.
QUOTE]


I guess my response to this would be that I have seen my animals in other peoples care, and the ones that I am most unhappy about, are always the ones that they value the least ie normals or non-pet snakes. So unhappy that I feel badly for having sold them in the first place. The answer to this would be to keep them all, but thats unreasonable, as I can't do that. Most people, espcially big breeders, can't do that.

I have to take my kid to baseball. I'll be back in a couple of hours. Thank you all for hashing this out with me. I appreciate the discussion. 8-)

S~

[ShawnC]

However, you didn't answer it. I asked for proof, of which you offered none. Thus, it is not as simple a concept as you believe.

I did answer it. Price is an excellent indicator of perceived value. Thats your answer. When you can't sell a snake for $30...that should tell you something...especially if you have 100 of them.

S~

[p3titexburial]

Not taking any sides here--but you know we do the whole "culling un-beautiful things" often. The ugly carrots go to the rabbits, for the ones who do breed their mice/rats as feeders en mass and keep a few as pets will usually keep the cutest/the ones worth more. Really, when it comes down to it, all life are equal--what would be the difference between eating a dog vs. a goat? After all, both are animals that can be used and raised for that purpose.

However unfair it may be, we do place value on certain things over others. I think it's up to the breeder to decide what they want to do. As long as it's humane, and no one tries to force this practice onto anyone else (or vice versa forcibly stop this practice) then there really wouldn't be an argument to begin with. I love snakes but I don't condemn people who eat them. Similarly, people who love chickens or bunnies usually don't condemn those who eat them as well.

I'm sure people who keep goats and who love goats as pets are mortified when they see it sold for food. Cows, horses, etc. How is it any different than when we're mortified to hear people eat snakes/other pet species?

Everything's a choice, we choose to keep snakes and therefore take on the burden that we must kill and feed them mice.

Unfortunately, it can get extremely out of hand, as only in the history of humanity has any one species decided to destroy or place value on another simply out of personal prejudice.

In any case, no matter which way the wind blows, this sort of inequality exists whether we like it or not. There's no clear cut answer or solution, if there was one to begin with at all.

[MsPrada]

I stand by what I said, as of right now it seems as if you are dodging the asked for proof because you have none, thus your logic is not sound. As you said "your job is to convince us" and its not going to work without proof.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

life for these animals after they leave your possesion..that doesn't make you less responsible for them...you created them. So what happens to them begins, and ends, because of you.

Best option than is not to breed at all because regardless of the paint job and/or the value of the animal once the animal is sold you no longer have control of what happen to the said animal.
If you think that because an animal is expensive he will not get dumped or neglected than think again.

If the excuse is to cull animals so they do not become "victims" than why not cull the more expensive ones?.........................Double standard because of the time and money involved?

Do you seriously think that someone buying an albino will not abandoned it or neglect if he no longer has interest in it in 5 or 10 years?

So what do we do?

A/ Cull them all
B/ Stop breeding them
C/ Have a little faith in people and give animals a chance

[Adam_Wysocki]

I'm sure people who keep goats and who love goats as pets are mortified when they see it sold for food.

I would offer that there's a huge difference between animals that are produced to feed people (and other animals) and animals that are killed for no other reason than that they're a financial burden to the breeder.

The former is called farming ... the latter is called unethical.

I understand that killing for the sake of a balance sheet is done in our society, but to get on a message board and try and convince people that it's being done for "the good of the hobby" just sickens me. Call it what it is and move on.

-adam