Put it down already

[Jay_Bunny]

That is just horrible. My favorite female is a normal and I have to admit, I have a soft spot for my male normal rescue. (I might keep him)

Normal males may not be part of someone's breeding plans but that is no reason to kill them. That makes me angry and sad.

[MarkS]

Interesting thread, I haven't read the whole thread yet so please excuse me if this has been covered already. My question is where do you draw the line?

Should I freeze this one? She seems healthy and active but she's missing an eye. Eyes on snakes are overrated so it probably shouldn't cause her any problems though I'll never be able to sell her.



Should I have tried to save this one? It was born alive, had no eyes, a deformed jaw, and quite a bit of kinking and had the belly attached back to itself in a few places. I snapped some pics and put it in the freezer.



How about this one? It's a normal male from one of my dinking around projects. This guy has some head rub from trying to test the limits of his shoe box. It'll likely disappear after several sheds, but it's going to make it very difficult to sell even though he eats well and has a great calm yet inquisitive personality. There are plenty of breeders that will stick healthy normal males in the freezer as a matter of course just because they're harder to sell and you can't make any money off of them so why waste the resources?



So what do you euthanize? What are the criteria and who makes the decisions? I'm also very active in the local reptile adoption program through our herp society. We have ball pythons coming in every month, and fortunately we've been able to find homes for all of them, but there are other species like green iguanas and Burmese pythons where we HAVE had to put down some individuals because we were not able to place them after many months. I can foresee a time where that may become necessary for ball pythons too.

[wilomn]

If it's my opinion you'd be interested in hearing, this is it.

You're doing fine. I would most likely have done the same. Some of your questions are identical to mine.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I don't know who the vets you quoted are nor do I know their affiliations. For all I know they're petaphiles or work for hsus.

LMAo! Wes it is so fun reading your replies!!!! thanks for chiming in.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Mark my answer to your questions in my opinion.

The second one that is all jacked up... i would defiantely have put that one down because it obviously would never live a normal happy life.

The third one with the head sore. I would definately NOT put that one down. There is nothing wrong with that snake other then a little skin blemish. It will no doubt live and function like a normal BP its entire life. If you don't want it, it shouldn't be hard to find someone that will come take him from you for free.

The first one with the missing eye. That is a tricky one, and in a situation like that it should be up to the breeder and the breeders lifetime plan for the snake.

That said if it were mine, It would have been frozen... Not so much because of it being an ugly snake, but because I would always suspect possible other damage and / or discomfort. This is what i would think - what if that missing eye is because of an overall skull deformation? It wouldnt be too far stretched to consider the fact that something like that can cause pressure in the snakes head that is out of the ordinary. That pressure can certainly cause discomfort. What if every day of that snakes life it has HORRIBLE headaches as result? As long as it keeps eating, you would never know if it were suffering or not. That uncertainty for me would be enough reason to freeze.


And for those that think freezing is so inhumane... PLEASE share what in your opinion would be a MORE humane way of putting a hatchling down?

[Simpson Balls]

I've heard of one breeder (has a bad name in the industry) who puts all normal males in the freezer.

That breeder suck! You know there people out there that love snakes but can't afford a expensive morph and what something cheap like a Norm ball. Does this breeder not understand that if he does nt want them he can just sell them for 20 each and make a bit of money there? Wow if I could I would want to smack the breeder silly! Haha

Daniel

[wilomn]

That breeder suck! You know there people out there that love snakes but can't afford a expensive morph and what something cheap like a Norm ball. Does this breeder not understand that if he does nt want them he can just sell them for 20 each and make a bit of money there? Wow if I could I would want to smack the breeder silly! Haha

Daniel

How old are you?

I ask because if you are young, then your stupidity is understandable.

If you're old enough to know better, then either you have no knowledge of business or you are simply happy in your ignorance and should be treated accordingly.

[Simpson Balls]

15??? All I am saying is there are people who will take Male Norms. There is not need to freeze them unless you are a huge breeder.

Daniel

[Turbo Serpent]

15??? All I am saying is there are people who will take Male Norms. There is not need to freeze them unless you are a huge breeder.

Daniel

This also explains your significant lies about breeding and such when you first joined the site, as "Ball Python Expert"

[ladywhipple02]

[QUOTE=Mike Cavanaugh;1145647] That pressure can certainly cause discomfort. What if every day of that snakes life it has HORRIBLE headaches as result? As long as it keeps eating, you would never know if it were suffering or not. That uncertainty for me would be enough reason to freeze.
[QUOTE]


Isn't saying a snake can have a headache kinda the same thing as saying that animal can be a sweetheart? Do we even know if these animals have the capacity to have headaches? Seems like a bit of anthropomorphizing to me....

If we get a perfectly normal BP, but he's not eating, are we to assume that the temp in his enclosure is off? That he may be stressed by his surroundings? Or that he has internal damage?

Fact is, we judge a lot of what we do based on how our animals are eating. If they are eating, it's a good sign and means all your temps are correct, he's not stressed, etc. Can't we assume the same in a snake that doesn't have an eye?

Guess that's my judgement