Sulfur = Fire

Again the only objections for keeping it known as the sulfur at this moment are the unknowns the ifs & maybe's. I guess some people don't care about the fact that this will become rampant in the hobby soon if we don't clear it up now. In the end if you produce a new morph I can buy the same snake that may look slight different in shade and or pattern and say it is different. How would you feel if this eventually happened to you? Maybe I should go to petco and buy a ball and say hey it looks kind of lightly colored and if it throws a light baby in a few years then I can call it a light ball ball python and sell it for 1,500.

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Originally Posted by SUPERBALLS

blood test! sense when did we need that to determine genetics of ball python morphs, i dont think comparing fires and sulfers to cinnamons and blacks is to far off. like i said they also have differnt looks just like the cinny and black and there combos are different looking to, but still have the same super;)

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I currently have a super cinny en route. It is not the same mutation as a super black pastel. It has silver and a dark grey color to it. The super black pastels are almost pitch black. Super fires/sulfurs are identical. No shade difference at all. And fires and sulfurs are also the same. I would bet even though you say they look the same if I took clutches from both you couldn't separate them correctly. With cinny's and black pastels I bet you could.

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Originally Posted by envy_ld50

Again the only objections for keeping it known as the sulfur at this moment are the unknowns the ifs & maybe's. I guess some people don't care about the fact that this will become rampant in the hobby soon if we don't clear it up now. In the end if you produce a new morph I can buy the same snake that may look slight different in shade and or pattern and say it is different. How would you feel if this eventually happened to you? Maybe I should go to petco and buy a ball and say hey it looks kind of lightly colored and if it throws a light baby in a few years then I can call it a light ball ball python and sell it for 1,500.

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so are you argueing the piont that a cinny is the same as a black pastel cause im telling you this seems to be the same situation because in reallity cinny and black are differnt morphs, just like the butters and lesser

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Originally Posted by envy_ld50

Again the only objections for keeping it known as the sulfur at this moment are the unknowns the ifs & maybe's. I guess some people don't care about the fact that this will become rampant in the hobby soon if we don't clear it up now. In the end if you produce a new morph I can buy the same snake that may look slight different in shade and or pattern and say it is different. How would you feel if this eventually happened to you? Maybe I should go to petco and buy a ball and say hey it looks kind of lightly colored and if it throws a light baby in a few years then I can call it a light ball ball python and sell it for 1,500.

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You can, and people do, but they usually go for about $150. If you prove a c.h. or w.c as a genetic light ball and sell them as genetic light balls for $1,500, then more power to you.

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Originally Posted by envy_ld50

I currently have a super cinny en route. It is not the same mutation as a super black pastel. It has silver and a dark grey color to it. The super black pastels are almost pitch black. Super fires/sulfurs are identical. No shade difference at all. And fires and sulfurs are also the same. I would bet even though you say they look the same if I took clutches from both you couldn't separate them correctly. With cinny's and black pastels I bet you could.

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yoru telling me you cant tell the difference in a fire and sulpher or there combos like the fire pastel and sulpher pastel cause i sure as hell can, and im not saying there as differnt as cinnys are to blacks, but i think its still the same genetic style

My point is they are different lines.

No one has a problem saying Graziani cinny or pastel. Or BHB cinny or nerd lemon pastel. It is understood they are different lines yet the same morph.

I think this is the same concept adding the fact that no one has yet to prove the Fires and Sulphurs are compatable. That is an assumption untill proven to be genetically true.

I understand where you are coming from but just because the supers are similar doesnt make them the same exact morph quite yet until proven and even then they would still be different lines.

Vin Russo's, mojaves, butters and lessers make BEL's but they arent the same morphs?

I have seen Amirs black eyed line hets (hypo glows) in person and they are visibly different than fires yet they produce similar supers.

It is important to distinguish lines so future breeders can have more knowledge of the genetic pool they are working with and make there choices accordingly.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

You can, and people do, but they usually go for about $150. If you prove a c.h. or w.c as a genetic light ball and sell them as genetic light balls for $1,500, then more power to you.

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i agree, if your serious about this hobby and spend $1,500 on a morph and get burned or buy the same morph as another one for less, its your fault you need to reaserch before purchasing, or deciede that your ok paying more for somthing potentilly different

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

My point is they are different lines.

No one has a problem saying Graziani cinny or pastel. Or BHB cinny or nerd lemon pastel. It is understood they are different lines yet the same morph.

I think this is the same concept adding the fact that no one has yet to prove the Fires and Sulphurs are compatable. That is an assumption untill proven to be genetically true.

I understand where you are coming from but just because the supers are similar doesnt make them the same exact morph quite yet until proven and even then they would still be different lines.

Vin Russo's, mojaves, butters and lessers make BEL's but they arent the same morphs?

I have seen Amirs black eyed line hets (hypo glows) in person and they are visibly different than fires yet they produce similar supers.

It is important to distinguish lines so future breeders can have more knowledge of the genetic pool they are working with and make there choices accordingly.

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bang!!!!!!!!!! right on the head, thank you, i really belive they are different lines and maybe a different morph all together

Again I have seen both and they both look like fires. They both vary in color and pattern. Many other breeders I know and talk to have agreed with me that this type of think needs to be fixed. I know that alot of people will defend so called lines and unproven morphs just because others do. But simply if it's unproven it's unproven! And there is really no way to argue that. I will believe something is different when I see it proven. No disrespect to the sulfur combos because fires are my favorite and the combos are identical so I love them.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

My point is they are different lines.

No one has a problem saying Graziani cinny or pastel. Or BHB cinny or nerd lemon pastel. It is understood they are different lines yet the same morph.

I think this is the same concept adding the fact that no one has yet to prove the Fires and Sulphurs are compatable. That is an assumption untill proven to be genetically true.

I understand where you are coming from but just because the supers are similar doesnt make them the same exact morph quite yet until proven and even then they would still be different lines.

Vin Russo's, mojaves, butters and lessers make BEL's but they arent the same morphs?

I have seen Amirs black eyed line hets (hypo glows) in person and they are visibly different than fires yet they produce similar supers.

It is important to distinguish lines so future breeders can have more knowledge of the genetic pool they are working with and make there choices accordingly.

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A lot of people must not be reading the whole thread. I have said all along the morph needs to be proven. And that breeders SHOULD distinguish thier lines if they choose like BHB and Graziani have done. Certain posters are not reading and fully understanding what is being said. But I agree with you Raul. We need to take the time to prove out our animals.