Mice breeding update

Few months ago, i bought 1.3 mice from petco to attempt breeding.
I kept them in a tub while i built a rack for them and the breeding continually failed because the babies kept getting eaten by someone.
Fast forward, the rack is finished and i put all the girls in one tub, and the male in another (assuming it was him). I had a girl due within the week, and she delivered and the babies disappeared.
So disappointed, took that mom out put her with the male.
Couple weeks later another momma delivered and success!
They are now a week old, and i suspect at this point they are safe. The 2 girls left together have been helping eachother with the babies, one is due herself perhaps this week. So hopefully they continue to get along with a second litter.

Tl dr; i was finally able to get a litter of mice.

Now, to give that bad momma more tries or feed her off?

Pics because im proud of them lol:

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Its probably something I did, such as cleaning, but I’ve had them eat hopper babies. I lost 6 ASF tonight due to a cage cleaning. I hate for them to live in soiled bedding but at this point I don’t think I will clean anymore until I remove the babies. I’ve lost more litters than I care to mention due to this, ASF and mice. They always have food and water so I can only assume it’s messing with them and them not feeling safe.

I wish you better luck than me in your start!

Also, mice are known to eat their first litters. If I see one eating a baby, I feed it. If one is aggressive, I feed it. If it doesn’t have patterns (all black or golden), I feed it. Eventually they are all food, but it’s nice to have neat mice too.

Thanks for the tips and well wishing!

Each of the girls have had 3 litters each and until now they were always eaten. I am at least hopefull now that maybe it was just the one female causing the trouble.
I had more trouble than i ever expected lol. I didn't know asf's were like that too.
I have left them alone completely besides checking once a day to see if they're still there haha. They seem to keep the nest area very clean and they poop on the other end of the tub so its really not that messy in there so far.

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Asfs are friggin nightmares... so cute, yet so psycho and cannibalistic. Lol

Mice on the other hand are usually easy, but I occasionally had problem mothers back when I bred them. When this happened I would feed off that mother and buy a replacement... once they do it they seem to become prone to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

....Mice on the other hand are usually easy, but I occasionally had problem mothers back when I bred them. When this happened I would feed
off that mother and buy a replacement... once they do it they seem to become prone to it.

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I've never worked with ASF's, but have bred rats, mice & Russian dwarf hamsters for several decades...I agree with Alter-Echo, if a mouse kills &/or eats the babies, they generally do it again, so instead of giving "2nd chances" like I have tried in the past, I usually feed them off if they do that. Who knows why some do it? Not a lack of food or over-crowding, just some don't want to be parents. It's most common when mice get a little past their prime & seem to say "enough! I quit!" but sometimes a new "mom" will kill the babies too. It appears to be some confusion...they get carried away eating the afterbirth & just keep going, oops! But if a mouse has messed up instincts, I don't want her offspring in my colony anyways. Rarely, I'll give them a second chance. Another reason I might (give a 2nd chance) is when they have a really huge litter, some seem to sense it's more than they can feed, & they'll kill just a few...that's fairly normal (although gross) & acceptable.

One more thing: I've found the best ratio is 1.2 (one male, 2 females). More females seem to make too much stress & less breeding success. More than one male is a total no-no, as they'll fight to the death to be the only breeding male. The 2 females will help nurse each other's babies, but you have to hope they
have them about the same time, otherwise the older, bigger babies will starve out the newborns. Rarely, 2 females will keep stealing the babies from each other & stress out the babies...if I see them doing that, I try to distract them with treats (like sunflower seeds) & hope they settle down.

I am going to have to stop giving second chances too. I just caught a mouse cannibalizing just born pups and I was able to save the last one. I put it with some older pups and the moms took it in. I am hoping it doesn’t starve and didn’t have the heart to put it down so I figured I would see how another colony accepted it. Funny how the whole feeder to savior thing works out.

One more thing that may or may not help prevent mouse-cannibals is enough protein in their diet. One hopes that a quality mouse chow has it covered, but as a rodent breeder of many years, I do find myself offering supplements in the form of things like sunflower seeds+ & meal worms (they love freeze-dried or live & once they try them they jump on 'em), especially for the breeding/pregnant mice. I also give small bits of greens occasionally (not lettuce, I mean kale or similar "serious" greens with good nutrition) or other healthy veggies (pumpkin seeds, bits of carrot etc). I always have more than I need, so sometimes it's just as well that some mice (the cannibals) are what I like to call "volunteers", lol.

If you raise rats, you'll find they greatly appreciate WAY more food diversity than mice: they'll lick clean your peanut butter jar so you can easily rinse & recycle it, for example.Just don't give them fatty-fried (unhealthy) foods, or spicy/hot, or onions/garlic. This also keeps them friendly to handle- they're actually great intelligent pets, although not the prettiest or cutest. (they need tail make-overs? ;) )

Yeah, I found that a more diverse diet with freeze dried insects was greatly beneficial to my mice, they grew faster, had bigger litters, and didn't cannibalize as much.

I just got some rats from a local breeder, and i mentioned my trouble with the mice. He suggested feeding them millet. He said for him that stopped the cannibalizing for him.
I have not changed diets yet as i wanted to see how they did in the new set up.
The second momma had her litter today, and they combined both litters to one pile. I am glad they arent eaten but am worried since the week old ones are bigger they might keep the others from eating? Ill just wait and find out. I know both are feeding the pile in turns.

I feel like ill give the bad mom a second try, I'll keep her with the male and see if just the 2 of them make her change her mind, and perhaps give them a diet change to test.
Thanks for all the feed back and ideas!

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