Pat the baby biak green tree python

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I understand the concern but if you think about it, say the snake sits on the probe. The snake is say 79F which is the ambient of the middle level. Well the CHE would go to 100%. That would heat the air around the probe plus it would heat the snake. Once the temps on the snake hit 86F or the air around the probe hit 86F, it would shut it off. So really it doesnt matter if the snake sits on the probe or not since the snake is so small to begin with. I do agree, i would kind of worry if it was a full sized large CHE or a very thick heavy bodied snake. But really, if the snake's temp got too high for it, it would leave as long as cooler temps and spots were offered.

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I think you're fine only because of the equipment you're using.

The snake blocking the heat from being delivered to the probe may cause the air to rise and the tstat to turn off.... But will it do it in time to not give the snake a burn from above? Will that even work at all? That's my worry. If the snake puts it's cold belly on the probe what happens then? Will it still detect the air warming? I agree the snake's size may help under the current circumstances but at some point things will need to be changed.

As to snakes moving. If snakes always moved when the heat was getting too hot we shouldn't see burned snakes from run away heat mats, lamps, or flexwatt. They should have felt the heat and moved but we know that's not always how it goes and burns happen.

I mainly bring this up so others seeing your cage and this thread don't blindly copy it and cause harm to their snake. It seems that in your situation if we changed even one thing we could have issues.

Well with a full size CHE, yes it might give a burn but with the Nano stuff, it doesnt get hot enough, unless you touch it. Like i said, the 25 watt one topped out low 80s...iirc it was around 82F and that was running 100%.

Heat tape is different in that most burns occur off glass tank floors. And some of those heat tapes like the Zoo Med ones can hit 145F. I would question if that kind of heat could even reach a snake through the air in time to burn it before the snake moved. If it was a ramping heat, the snake would move off it long before it got hot enough to burn. If it was an instant 145F and you threw the snake under it, i bet the snake would move like lightning off it lol.

Now heat that it can come into contact with, i could see it burn which is what we mostly see with belly burns. If you look in the wild, I'm sure in some hot places like Australia, rocks there can get hot enough to fry and egg yet snakes and lizards survive there. I'm guessing they just avoid that kind of heat. In a cage with a glass bottom and unregulated heat tape plus an inch or more of substrate, the snake burrows down to get more heat and more or less instantly hits that 145F hot glass which gives it the burn. This all hypothetical though as i havent actually seen it happen or ever had to deal with a burn to any snakes ever.

I've talked to a few guys on the GTP boards and they do the same set up. Most use flexwatt though taped to a cage side and use the t-stat probe to monitor the ambient. The biggest thing i was told was to not use a belly heat unless it only covers 1/4 of the cage floor since if the GTP grounds, it would be stuck sitting on the heat tape and could overheat. But like i said, the CHE i am using is one that doesnt reach that high of air temps and again, it covers a 4 inch surface.

And i disagree, i dont see my set up causing any harm to the snake as like i said, the heating im using is a small caliber set up, not something like an 8 inch dome with a 100 watt CHE on a 18x18x18 cage. And yes if we changed something like a big CHE or big dome, then i could see possibly a burn but before that, i would expect to see the snake ground itself and not perch at all.

Heck i even have my hi temp shutoff set to 95F so if the probe reaches 95F+, it will shut the whole system down. I mean really i probably dont even need any heating. A few of the breeders i talked to said they dont even use an external heat source. They just keep them in an ambient room that varies from 77-82F from night to day and their GTPs grow and breed fine. I only give Pat the mini CHE because he seems to like the heat after eating.

But hey, we all have our views and thought and i appreciate your concerns about the probe.

Oh and one other thing concerning air temps, if you ever had monitors before, they love to sit under 120-130F heat lamps which dont burn them. The air temp would more overheat and dehydrate unless you are talking something crazy like 150F+ on flesh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Well with a full size CHE, yes it might give a burn but with the Nano stuff, it doesnt get hot enough, unless you touch it. Like i said, the 25 watt one topped out low 80s...iirc it was around 82F and that was running 100%.

Heat tape is different in that most burns occur off glass tank floors. And some of those heat tapes like the Zoo Med ones can hit 145F. I would question if that kind of heat could even reach a snake through the air in time to burn it before the snake moved. If it was a ramping heat, the snake would move off it long before it got hot enough to burn. If it was an instant 145F and you threw the snake under it, i bet the snake would move like lightning off it lol.

Now heat that it can come into contact with, i could see it burn which is what we mostly see with belly burns. If you look in the wild, I'm sure in some hot places like Australia, rocks there can get hot enough to fry and egg yet snakes and lizards survive there. I'm guessing they just avoid that kind of heat. In a cage with a glass bottom and unregulated heat tape plus an inch or more of substrate, the snake burrows down to get more heat and more or less instantly hits that 145F hot glass which gives it the burn. This all hypothetical though as i havent actually seen it happen or ever had to deal with a burn to any snakes ever.

I've talked to a few guys on the GTP boards and they do the same set up. Most use flexwatt though taped to a cage side and use the t-stat probe to monitor the ambient. The biggest thing i was told was to not use a belly heat unless it only covers 1/4 of the cage floor since if the GTP grounds, it would be stuck sitting on the heat tape and could overheat. But like i said, the CHE i am using is one that doesnt reach that high of air temps and again, it covers a 4 inch surface.

And i disagree, i dont see my set up causing any harm to the snake as like i said, the heating im using is a small caliber set up, not something like an 8 inch dome with a 100 watt CHE on a 18x18x18 cage. And yes if we changed something like a big CHE or big dome, then i could see possibly a burn but before that, i would expect to see the snake ground itself and not perch at all.

Heck i even have my hi temp shutoff set to 95F so if the probe reaches 95F+, it will shut the whole system down. I mean really i probably dont even need any heating. A few of the breeders i talked to said they dont even use an external heat source. They just keep them in an ambient room that varies from 77-82F from night to day and their GTPs grow and breed fine. I only give Pat the mini CHE because he seems to like the heat after eating.

But hey, we all have our views and thought and i appreciate your concerns about the probe.

Oh and one other thing concerning air temps, if you ever had monitors before, they love to sit under 120-130F heat lamps which dont burn them. The air temp would more overheat and dehydrate unless you are talking something crazy like 150F+ on flesh.

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I said I think your current setup as it sits is fine. What I implied was if we changed any one factor we could have issues and I don't want a noob GTP owner seeing your probe placement and thinking it is correct so they run off and throw it under a full size che or rhp. That will end in disaster.

I've tested my che in my arboreal cages. If the probe is moved or covered the top perch gets to cooking. Maybe it burns the snake, maybe not, but it certainly reaches the danger zone and could also cause neurological damage from the extreme heat.

Go to the people in the GTP boards and see if they recommend mounting the probe on the perch using a real che your rhp. I'm genuinely curious to see if some do. I've yet to see a keeper here do it and recommend it for an arboreal snake.

I agree that if you throw the snake on a hot surface it will leave. The issue is the thing you said you doubt, time. Will a che have enough time to burn the snake? I believe that is the key. If it slowly runs away because the probe gets covered, moved, or whatever it's that gradual rise that the snake doesn't notice until it's too late. Ever had a sunburn?

A monitor and a delicate GTP are very different from very different places. They can not be compared. Just as animals that live in the desert may thrive in those conditions while a GTP would be dead. That's like comparing a Western Diamondback to a GTP. It's apples to oranges.


With that I'm done and wish you years of enjoyment. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine. They are truly great animals.

Thanks. And yeah, so far I'm pretty happy. I think he is getting ready for his second shed with me as he is getting dull and his head looks like it is getting the pre shed swell but I'm not sure as I havent had a GTP long enough to really read their shed tells lol. And they are pretty awesome. Think the flood gates have been opened and i might need a couple more haha. Come on high blue one :D

Well it looks like Pat has been chatting it up with Caesar and Dottie. Not sure how he managed to get up there but i looked over while watching TV and saw his fat little belly and tail hanging down lol.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...f07dde45_h.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Well I pulled the trigger on one of the snakes I've always wanted and picked it up today. Meet Pat, the little 6 month old biak.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...9bfa27a0_h.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...8f89eee5_h.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...0634549c_b.jpg

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Very nice snake. I had a tree python for a short time. He was mean as heck and bit every time I went near him. A friend wanted him for a display snake for a classroom. They were not going to handle him so I gave him to them. Still loved by his students especially during feeding time.

Gratz again.

Thanks. And so far Pat is pretty laid back except during dinner time. I havent tried to handle him much except when i was switching him from tubs to his cube and when he fell off his perch onto my bed and i had to kind of direct him with my hand back onto his perch so i could lift him. He did tag the gal i bought him from twice lol. Even drew blood both times. But like i said, for me so far, nothing. He sat half on my hand and looked around. Thats about the most interaction ive done with him yet. Want to let him settle in for a couple months and grow some. Im scared ill hurt him being so small.

Haha, its time for the nightly where's Pat game. Lights went out and now he has decided he found a new perch area. He is holding the plant with his tail while part of his body is draped over the humidity probe wire and another part of his body is wedged between the top of the cage and the lip. Such a crazy little snake.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1da3e28b_h.jpg

I cant wait to see him try and caudal lure me over to him haha.

Alright, i know its been awhile since i posted a pic of Pat and you all are dying to see one....so here is Pat after a fuzzie mouse relaxing.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...95a5445f_k.jpg

You know after you mentioned Pat being active in the other thread I couldn't help but notice how active Ganja is now in her pvccages cube. I can tell you have adequate hiding spaces, perches and heating and I assume you have the lights on timers but I wonder two things...

1) Is more space better even for neonates? We are told they should live in a tiny tub until a year old but is that really the best for them? People used to swear ball pythons only should live in small cages but Dante is so much more active in his 4 foot cage. Queso, my neonate rosy boa is super healthy and active in his 20 long tank.

2) Is lighting on a cycle as beneficial for them as for others. Since placing Ganja in the new cube and having the LED light on a timer she is so much more active than in the tub. Same thing with Dante and Queso. They have a much better and more active routine on a lighting schedule.

So I wonder, is your setup then the better option for healthy neonates? Pat is eating like a horse and active so barring stress I would assume that is a good sign. I mean I am thrilled Ganja is being so active, it makes me think her muscles will strengthen now.

What do you think?