Need advice, is he ill?

IBD typically kills BP's quickly and you have had this one for six weeks. Is it showing other symptoms of being sick, such as RI, or is fasting the only symptom? Also do you know which lab did the testing?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

IBD typically kills BP's quickly and you have had this one for six weeks. Is it showing other symptoms of being sick, such as RI, or is fasting the only symptom? Also do you know which lab did the testing?

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I can find the specific lab used. Other than eating difficulties-I have had to assist feed- weight loss and diarrhea have manifest. No RI, no other symptoms. Initially, she had a stuck poop that the vet helped move, but since then all poop has been mostly liquid for about 2 weeks. The symptoms made us think Crypto was more likely, but Crypto tested negative and the IBD test was positive.

Since you are calling the vet tomorrow anyway -ask if the fecal you obtained was tested for coccidea, giardia, and regular GI parasites as well. Coccidea is rough on young animals and can also cause some liquid stool and decreased appetite and are usually included in routine fecal tests - neither are super common in domestic snakes but it's worth a check. Most labs hold onto samples for a little while in case vets want to add on tests, so there is a chance the lab still has the sample.

Did the vet mention anything about the chem values? Most chemistries will tell you how the kidneys and liver are functioning and if there is organ damage /depending on what kind of chem was run/. Chronic diarrhea could lead to kidney stress from dehydration and when the kidneys are not happy it kills the appetite as well.

Just grasping at options that may not be IBD...I'm sure the vet checked these things too, but sometimes they see a positive test result and focus on that instead of digging deeper :/

:( this is so disappointing. I have been following this thread really hoping she would pull thru for you. I'm so sorry

I'm still hoping the vet jumped to the wrong conclusion...it's possible. Several of the previous posts (including bcr229 & Crowfingers) are at least casting some doubts.

Yesterday I sent the following questions to the vet:

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1. Doing some research, I noticed some information regarding false positives and IBD tests. Can you tell me what specific test for IBD we performed, and whether there are any other tests we could do to confirm? What are the chances of a false positive? What does the test measure?

2. I believe I was told this, but what was the nane of the lab that performed the tests?

3. In the fecal test we did 3 weeks ago, I just wanted to verify the screening- were coccidea, giardia, all regular GI parasites all screened for?

4. In the blood chemistry done, I remember that some anemia showed, but was there any indication of how the kidneys and liver were functioning?

IBD typically kills Ball P quickly, but in our case she has been with me for roughly 6 weeks. Its also reported as very rare in newborns, although the info I saw doesn't state why. I just want to be sure I am making the right choices.

Thank you very much for everything you are doing for us.

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Are there any other questions those of you following this tjink might be helpful?

Thank you everyone for all the advise.

That sounds perfect! Hopefully you get some answers back that can lead to something treatable :)

Email answer from vet:

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I got your email with the questions. I hope you are okay with me responding via email. It is sometimes easier for me to send a quick email than make a phone call during a busy day. I will answer your questions below, please let me know what other questions you have.

1- We ran a CBC and PCR. The CBC is where they look at and count the blood cells. Sometimes IBD will cause changes called Inclusion bodies (hence the name Inclusion Body disease) in the cells. This did not show any inclusions. This is not surprising in pythons, as they often do not have inclusions even when they are infected.

a. The PCR is where they test for the DNA of the actual IBD virus in her blood. This is the test that came back positive. I trust this test a lot.

b. I think you are probably reading about false positives when inclusions are found in the cells on CBC. To my knowledge there is higher risk of false negative than false positive when testing for IBD

c. I will have to check with our lab to see if they can run a type of test called virus isolation, and what sample they need for that. There are other tests we can run, but to my knowledge all other testing requires that we take a biopsy. I am concerned about her ability to survive anesthesia for biopsy.

2- We sent the blood for IBD testing to Avian and Exotic Animal Clinical Pathology Labs. This report comes directly from the lab to us.

3- Fecal. We ran a fecal floatation that should be able to catch the more common intestinal parasites (think worms), coccidia, and in many cases Giardia. It can be difficult to detect giardia in some cases. If we have high suspicion, we usually send a specific test. We can do this, but would need either a fresh sample of feces or a fresh swab from her cloaca.

4- There was no blood chemistry run. Only tests run were CBC and PCR test for IBD. CBC will not tell us about kidneys. We would need to collect another blood sample if wanting to run a chemistry panel. Also, that will be an additional cost.

a. Anemia means low red blood cells. This can happen due to chronic disease like IBD.

You are correct that IBD usually kills pythons quickly. Just because a disease usually does something, however, doesn’t mean that it always will. Yes, it is not common in newborns, but recently we have found it can spread from the mother snake to her young. The juvenile snake can develop inclusion bodies as early as 2 months of age. We can re-test if you would like.



I think it is rare in baby snakes because a lot of the time we just call these little ones ‘poor doers’. Or call it ‘failure to thrive’ and do not do the work and testing to actually get a diagnosis. I think if we look, we will find more cases.



I hope this helps. You are in a tough spot, but if she doesn’t start to gain weight, then I think we may be forced into the decision. Please let me know what other questions you have.

Best wishes

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Thoughts?

I would believe the answer to 1a and that lab has a good rep.

The reason most baby snakes don't pop with IBD is because they typically haven't had a chance to get exposed, especially when purchased directly from a breeder. Yours came from a retailer that cohabbed your baby with older animals so it likely was exposed there. It sucks but you must avoid that store in the future for the safety of your collection.

Personally I go scorched earth on stores like this, as IMO selling a vet bill is unconscionable.

Your emailed questions appear to have been very convenient (thoughtful for the vet) to reply to, & your vet's response was both helpful &
thorough...just not good news for your snake though. :( So sorry...