Exotic Pet Trade?

What exactly is the “exotic pet trade?” Are we a part of it since ownership of reptiles, amphibians, and invertebrates? I strongly believe in only purchasing captive bred. I’ve came across a few sites and a video that discourages exotic animals in captivity. These are the sites (video) that I saw that not peaked my curiosity. Hope to get answers!
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/index.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSQ8blCdAtA

Yes, we are a part of the exotic pet trade. At least, any time we buy or sell, we are. Not sure just keeping them counts, but buying supplies probably does.

As far as the stuff discouraging exotic animals in captivity.... well, honestly, you could probably find something discouraging pretty much anything if you looked around the internet long enough. But, yes, there are groups that are strongly against the exotic pet trade. Animals rights activist wackos mostly.

What you should be worrying about, IMO, is not that some people disapprove about the exotic pet trade, but the fact that those groups of people, along with the sensationalist media, are succeeding in getting laws passed that are making it illegal to own some of these exotic animals. Try reading the list of animals that is proposed to become illegal in West Virginia. The bill has already passed and been signed into law. The only issue now is exactly what species will or won't end up on the final list. Or perhaps it has been finalized. I'm not totally on top of it. But here is a link if you want to read more:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ater-this-week

Herptiles, along with birds, exotic fish and nondomestic mammals all contribute to the 'exotic pet trade.' Most of those discouragement videos are primarily propaganda to support the delusional animal rights agenda, and are either pure lies or spun to make things seems 10x worst than they actually. Granted the exotic pet trade isn't purely innocent, it is not like what they portray is as by any means. However, nobody really bother to points out their incorrect facts and lies because those who follow them are way too ignorant to do so.

Remember, aside from your average ignorant bystander, the people who are against the pet trade, are the same wackjobs who think cats and dogs along with every other animal deserves the same right as people and that we should all be forced to convert to vegetarians, and let vermin infest our homes while forgoing animal products that are still essential to human society. The exotic pet trade does make great leaps to bring animals closer to people, and promote both conservation and compassion for lesser known animals which otherwise, people would not have.

i see two problems:

the first big problem is poaching and hunting for the pet trade, and the illegal smuggling and sale of poached animals. this causes destruction of nature and puts a tremendous burden on a variety of species. also these animals often suffer a lot, and many die in transit. the people that are attracted to this are people that would otherwise traffic drugs or weapons or people, trafficking wildlife offers similar profit margins while the risks are much lower, because the penalties are lower.

ethical people that care about nature and the animals stay away from this destructive and dark side of the industry.

for a clearer distinction, i would refer to this as the "exotic wildlife trade", or as "exotic wildlife trafficking", i think the word "wildlife" makes it clear that we are talking about poached wildlife.

i dont think bans help, because i see that it is already banned in most parts of the world, so the problems are a lack of enforcement and that the penalties are too weak. for legitimate international trade, we have to get the right CITES paperwork, the wildlife traffickers will not have that paperwork or will obtain it through bribes or corruption or will forge the documents. or they will simply risk getting caught, which only results in some fines and a lost shipment. since the profit margins are as high as they are in the drug trade, and the damage to the environment is very real, the punishments need to be equally high.

the second problem is irresponsible keepers that buy animals that absolutely do not make good pets. and they get overwhelmed by the challenge. then the animals suffer and accidents can happen. this is a problem with animals like lions, tigers, bears, giraffes, elephants.

then there is a problem with really crazy people doing totally insane things. like trafficking giraffes to let them go on a ranch somewhere in rural texas or whatever, so that some republican gun nut can pay 10000 dollars to put bullets in it. yes that really gives the whole industry a bad name. when they do animal trafficking of big game, just for the fun of shooting it. thats just wrong on so many levels.

the people that are against the exotic pet trade are generally against these things. their concerns are real and legitimate. the problem is, while they do know about the dark side of the industry (and it is as dark as it gets), they do not know that there are responsible keepers, breeders and dealers, who deal with captive bred animals, and with species that actually do make good pets.

Just a small point, the 'big game' hunting that you mentioned actually is very good for conservation. Paid hunts bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars to conservation efforts, help preserve habitat, and protect the existing animal populations from poaching. Its a very different situation from the illegal smuggling and poaching of animals. (Also, any animals being flown to a ranch in Texas with the intent of hunting them are illegally obtained. That is not a legal practice and is in fact poaching.)

WWF- Hunting for Conservation

Hunting As a Conservation Tool

Trophy Hunting in The Context of Conservation

Most of what people tend to think of when they hear "exotic pet trade" is animals being wild caught and poached illegally. That or people releasing their snakes and such "back to the wild". Many don't both to educate themselves on the captive populations that typically serve as exotic pets, so exotic pet owners often get cast as shady people when that's really not the truth in most cases. Fact is, it is the people who acquire large, dangerous animals without regulation that give the industry a bad name. The people who let their lions escape, or get hurt when they get too comfortable around a tiger (which is not just "a big *****cat" as some seem to believe). I'm not against private ownership of large exotics. But there is an extreme lack of regulation that often leads to misconceptions and laws like those in West Virginia. If you want a tiger, fine, but there should be mandatory education before being permitted to acquire one, background checks, inspections to guarantee an animal's proper care, assessments of enclosures to ensure the safety of both the animal and the community. There need to be regulated channels to go through. Many states either have ridiculous restrictions (like WV) or none at all, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed. The answer is not a shut down on the exotic animal industry, but a monitoring of it. And higher punishments and criminal charges for those who illegal obtain, smuggle, or poach animals. This would discourage the illegal capture of animals and encourage the existence of a captive bred population, which would in turn create a healthier population in captivity without the risk of parasites and illness from a wild caught/poached animal. The process of being smuggled leads to so many sick, ill, injured, and dead animals with little consequence for the perpetrators.

i dont believe in "hunting for preservation", because this is basically like {removed}
theoretically it could work.... if the 3rd world nations that are known for corruption actually select the right animals for it, and use the money to protect the animals. even then, its still contradictory and weird, compared to safari tourism or ecotourism.

but when poachers poach animals, and people smuggle them into the united states, and big game hunters pay their money to some guy in the united states who will use the money to pay poachers and hunters to get the next animal into the united states, then i can assure you 100% of the money goes to the bad guys that we dont want to have it, and 0% of the money goes to conservation.

also, i have the impression that these big game hunters are unethical people who do not care about the environment. basically like poachers, except that they pay for the experience instead of getting paid for it. so i think most of them dont care. one year they might kill a grizzly in yellowstone national park, the next year they might buy one of the permits to shoot an elephant in africa where the money goes to conservation, the year after that they pay criminals to be able to shoot a giraffe in texas, and the year after that you find them butchering sharks in some coral reef. i dont believe they like animals, after all they love to kill them.


i agree about the other things. in Germany you can basically keep anything, as long as you can show that you have the knowledge, the money, the space, and the time to properly care for them. so when you want a tiger, its awfully hard to do, but not impossible, it just reflects the difficulty of actually keeping a tiger in a way that makes sense.

and penalties for poaching and smuggling should be higher. there should also be penalties for dealers that get caught with poached animals, usually the risk is over once the animals did the last border crossing without getting caught, and when the poached animals then show up in pet stores and at reptile shows, noone cares anymore.

maybe the responsible breeders and dealers and pet stores could form a system where they get together and corner off their part of the market, making it harder for poached animals to reach the consumer. basically you have a pool of responsible breeders, and then a pool of responsible dealers that only buy from responsible breeders, and then pet stores that only buy from responsible breeders or dealers. someting like a "network of responsible exotic pet professionals for conservation". a system that works, with rules that work, for example, all members could pledge to make the animals trackable from the consumer all the way to the breeder, and to report those to the authorities that deal with poached animals, and a way to kick those out of the system that break the rules.

could you please tell me specifically what word i spelled out that was not allowed?

i mean, i did get an infraction.

but i dont see for what, and what the purpose was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

could you please tell me specifically what word i spelled out that was not allowed?

i mean, i did get an infraction.

but i dont see for what, and what the purpose was.

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If you have an issue use the proper channel, and this is not the proper channel.

You know why you got an infraction you are no stranger to them and I believe by now you should know what what our TOS are, what family friendly means and how to go about issues like this....we talked about this many times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whatsherface

Just a small point, the 'big game' hunting that you mentioned actually is very good for conservation. Paid hunts bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars to conservation efforts, help preserve habitat, and protect the existing animal populations from poaching. Its a very different situation from the illegal smuggling and poaching of animals. (Also, any animals being flown to a ranch in Texas with the intent of hunting them are illegally obtained. That is not a legal practice and is in fact poaching.)

WWF- Hunting for Conservation

Hunting As a Conservation Tool

Trophy Hunting in The Context of Conservation

Most of what people tend to think of when they hear "exotic pet trade" is animals being wild caught and poached illegally. That or people releasing their snakes and such "back to the wild". Many don't both to educate themselves on the captive populations that typically serve as exotic pets, so exotic pet owners often get cast as shady people when that's really not the truth in most cases. Fact is, it is the people who acquire large, dangerous animals without regulation that give the industry a bad name. The people who let their lions escape, or get hurt when they get too comfortable around a tiger (which is not just "a big *****cat" as some seem to believe). I'm not against private ownership of large exotics. But there is an extreme lack of regulation that often leads to misconceptions and laws like those in West Virginia. If you want a tiger, fine, but there should be mandatory education before being permitted to acquire one, background checks, inspections to guarantee an animal's proper care, assessments of enclosures to ensure the safety of both the animal and the community. There need to be regulated channels to go through. Many states either have ridiculous restrictions (like WV) or none at all, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed. The answer is not a shut down on the exotic animal industry, but a monitoring of it. And higher punishments and criminal charges for those who illegal obtain, smuggle, or poach animals. This would discourage the illegal capture of animals and encourage the existence of a captive bred population, which would in turn create a healthier population in captivity without the risk of parasites and illness from a wild caught/poached animal. The process of being smuggled leads to so many sick, ill, injured, and dead animals with little consequence for the perpetrators.

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Yes, killing endangered/threatened animals is a great way to help the environment and conserve the animals.....by killing them.

I start fires to help prevent future fires.

[emoji12]

Sent from MY MOM!

Actually, fires are sometimes set by firefighters and park rangers to control the spread of forest fires? So...

None of the animals killed in legal paid hunts are endangered. I don't like sport hunting, but I also don't see people giving 30,000+ dollars to a reserve in Africa 'just 'cause.' It sucks, but at least it's regulated and monitored. More focus needs to be put on the people sneaking into reserves and cutting the horns off rhinos than is given to rich morons (who do not hunt endangered animals, by the way). These poachers are the problem. The people smuggling animals out of the country as pets and as targets are the problem. The people who paid to be allowed onto a reserve with a guide (who works for the reserve and carefully monitors the ecological balance of the park) who picked exactly which animal to be killed with the least amount of impact on the population are not the problem. The lack of proper legal consequences/punishments for poachers and smugglers is the problem.

People who pay tens of thousands of dollars to hunt a single animal have done more for conservation than acknowledged because no one like when cute animals die. There are hundreds of threatened and endangered animals that are not adorable (insects, arachnids, amphibians) that you don't hear about and no one cares about because they're all so devoted to the cute/pretty ones. You can't get people to care when deforestation is decimating endangered insect and frog populations but mention a dead cute animal and people are through the roof. You can't get people to help an animal rescue unless you put puppies and kittens in the ad somehow, even though reptiles and birds needs rescuing too. Millions of dollars are put to artificially inseminating pandas, why isn't any of that being put towards conservation of other endangered animals? Why aren't more dollars going to programs for breeding and eventual release to the wild? Why is so much attention given to the birth of white tigers, who will never be released into the wild but only serve to make zoos more money? Why aren't more animal poachers and smugglers put in jail instead of just getting a slap on the wrist?

That is where the spotlight needs to be.