Kevin Hit 3.

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Originally Posted by bns

Excess is stored as fat. The difference in how that store is used is what I'm talking about. Large infrequent meals with seasonal fasting triggers stores to be used as growth vs many small meals that are more likely to be stored as fat and not used towards growth. (-This depends on age, seasonality etc -covered that earlier...)



Yes, he would have hit a plateau but it would have occurred years later.


Sounds about right to me.

Why the change?

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If a snake uses a larger percentage of smaller meal once a month, would they not have less excess to store vs a large meal every 3 months? And then, if they're fed seasonally, have even less excess either way? I suppose maybe feeding mainly smaller meals throughout the year, with one or two big meals leading up to a fast would also be a valid approach, at least for some individuals.

And yes, I definitely notice a difference between my conservatively-fed boas and Cloud when I first got them. Two 2015's and a 2016, none of which have reached a plateau in growth yet, though none have reached 6' yet. In fact, this year they've been hitting record growth rates.

I changed Dominika's feeding, because everyone seemed to agree they should get smaller more frequent meals during courtship and while gravid. And since her gravid period is going to line up with her usual fasting period...she'll be eating this winter. By the time she were to give birth and had enough meals in her to get her back up to shape, we'll be back into spring. She's not due until end of Nov or early Dec. BUT...if she proves not to have become gravid by end of December I'll give her a few normal sized meals and then fast her the remaining couple months of winter.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

If a snake uses a larger percentage of smaller meal once a month, would they not have less excess to store vs a large meal every 3 months? And then, if they're fed seasonally, have even less excess either way? I suppose maybe feeding mainly smaller meals throughout the year, with one or two big meals leading up to a fast would also be a valid approach, at least for some individuals.

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I'm telling you what I observe...with a similar amount of calories, a boa fed larger meals with seasonality (etc.) uses those calories differently...it will get longer than it's small meal counterpart.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

And yes, I definitely notice a difference between my conservatively-fed boas and Cloud when I first got them. Two 2015's and a 2016, none of which have reached a plateau in growth yet, though none have reached 6' yet. In fact, this year they've been hitting record growth rates.

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This sounds like you are doing great...

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

I changed Dominika's feeding, because everyone seemed to agree they should get smaller more frequent meals during courtship and while gravid. And since her gravid period is going to line up with her usual fasting period...she'll be eating this winter. By the time she were to give birth and had enough meals in her to get her back up to shape, we'll be back into spring. She's not due until end of Nov or early Dec. BUT...if she proves not to have become gravid by end of December I'll give her a few normal sized meals and then fast her the remaining couple months of winter.

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I don't feed during courtship...Boas breed during the cool season or just after depending on sub, that coincides with the not eating season. -Same as in the wild. (It's not as important with BCI after many generations in captivity though).
Feeding too near parturition can kill babies. -Be careful.

Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bns

I'm telling you what I observe...with a similar amount of calories, a boa fed larger meals with seasonality (etc.) uses those calories differently...it will get longer than it's small meal counterpart.


This sounds like you are doing great...



I don't feed during courtship...Boas breed during the cool season or just after depending on sub, that coincides with the not eating season. -Same as in the wild. (It's not as important with BCI after many generations in captivity though).
Feeding too near parturition can kill babies. -Be careful.

Good luck.

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Do you mind if I send you a pm with my next set of questions so this thread can go back to carpets? Some of it is python related just not carpet, and my earlier questions I felt could be applied to the carpets as well as the boas. These are a bit more specific.


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Originally Posted by bns

I know folks say this with good intentions so I mean no disrespect...but I don't like that phrase. What does it mean? Slow as compared to what?

That phrase is used today because keepers many years ago noticed that voracious baby boa could pound down the chow and get big quick. In some subs it could even lead to litters sooner. Many packed the food in young boas because they wanted a rapid return on investment by selling some trait. In the short term (8years or so) it seemed to work but it was eventually learned that it negatively affected life span and over the course of the reproductive years a boa that was "slow grown" would 'outperform' its fat counterpart. Live longer, higher fecundity...win win.

'Slow grown' as compared to the overfeeding way that didn't work well long term.

Boas should be fed as individuals. The rate changes as they age. The temperatures/seasons offered/daylight times offered/sex/use of reproduction/sub...all these things have influence.

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I think you already described my thinking. However, I've learned to keep it simple. More experienced and educated keepers ask the question you asked and the answer is relative to someone who offers often and offers large meals because a) a boa will take it, or b) they want them to grow fast for their own edification.

Of course it varies, and I've demonstrated that with Behira by completely changing her feeding schedule around her shedding schedule change. Not sure if you've followed that but she started very rapid sheds and I adjusted feeding in the hopes of getting her back on track which seems to have worked, although it could be coincidence.

However, and again, many new keepers need things explained with broad strokes. Not because they are dumb but because it's a lot to take in at once. Once you get the basics; temps, humidity, snake is eating properly, etc. then you can get into granularity about individual animals and age, sex, breeding, etc.

Anyway, no disrespect taken, but I wanted to explain my position per your question.

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Originally Posted by dakski

I think you already described my thinking. However, I've learned to keep it simple. More experienced and educated keepers ask the question you asked and the answer is relative to someone who offers often and offers large meals because a) a boa will take it, or b) they want them to grow fast for their own edification.

Of course it varies, and I've demonstrated that with Behira by completely changing her feeding schedule around her shedding schedule change. Not sure if you've followed that but she started very rapid sheds and I adjusted feeding in the hopes of getting her back on track which seems to have worked, although it could be coincidence.

However, and again, many new keepers need things explained with broad strokes. Not because they are dumb but because it's a lot to take in at once. Once you get the basics; temps, humidity, snake is eating properly, etc. then you can get into granularity about individual animals and age, sex, breeding, etc.

Anyway, no disrespect taken, but I wanted to explain my position per your question.

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I'm not sure what question you are talking about...You didn't need to explain anything to me...I was entirely confident that you were on the right page -so to speak. Any question in that post was to prove my hate for that saying nothing more. ;)

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Do you mind if I send you a pm with my next set of questions so this thread can go back to carpets? Some of it is python related just not carpet, and my earlier questions I felt could be applied to the carpets as well as the boas. These are a bit more specific.


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Gio said I could wreck his thread..:D

Your right though...PM it is. (I have some work to do but will probably get back to this site later).

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Originally Posted by bns

Gio said I could wreck his thread..:D

Your right though...PM it is. (I have some work to do but will probably get back to this site later).

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Lol yeah but I still don’t want to muddy things too much now that I’m straying away from more general questions. I’ll send a PM and you can just get back to me later!


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He likes me wrecking his thread so much that he posted up a full on body shot of himself. He makes that snake look good.... :bolt:

Yes!!

I'm all for the direction the thread took. I'm probably the first violator when it comes to changing the main subject from the Bredli to feeding.

Just some info for folks that don't know BNS.

If any of you remember when I wasn't lazy and answered feeding questions regarding boas, my answers and examples came from him. Gus Renfro (Who BNS used to speak with) and Vin Russo.

If you don't know who Gus is, research his name and carefully pay attention to anything you can pick up from his postings on the net if there are any still out there.

Cloud if you remember way back, "Evenstar" (Kali) and I helped you out with your boa and feeding schedule.

Anyhow BNS knows his stuff!

I still ask for his advice when I'm in a jam.