Cat adoption denied for having a Ball Python after taking home the cat. Help!

Last Friday, my girlfriend and I went looking at cats at a local Petsmart. She immediately fell in love with a young siamese cat and we filled out an application that night. The next morning we went in to play with the cat and turned the application in. It was noted on his sheet that he does not like to be around other cats, yet he was in a room full of them without any way to escape the chaos. We noticed how stressed he was being around them, to the point of attacking them if they got too close to us as we were petting him. His cage was also shut and 4ft off the ground. We've noticed how anxious he is just jumping off the bed and won't even jump on the chairs or couch, so we think he's not very comfortable with heights. Anyways, at that point they told us we seemed like a really good fit, they just had several applications for him, so they needed to make calls and they'd get back to us. Within a couple of hours we were told we were approved, so I went to Petsmart, paid for him, and took him home. Since bringing him in, he has been a non-stop purring machine and we've all been bonding terrifically.

Now, today I got a call and they said their volunteer made a mistake and they don't give cats to homes with snakes. The foster mother was "beside herself" when she heard they were in a house with snakes. On the application, I nearly omitted that fact, but decided to be honest in case they made a housecall. I am aware of the prejudice against snakes and it KILLS ME. I wrote that I had 3 ball pythons that were securely enclosed, plain as day on the app. Now they want to remove the cat from the home because it is in a dangerous situation. I tried to explain that my ball pythons couldn't eat the cat, if that's what they're worried about, and that I'm not an irresponsible snake owner as some people can be. (God, we've probably all heard those horror stories that start with "Oh! I had a snake once! It...[proceeds to tell me how their snake died tragically]")

According to the contract:
1. I agree this cat is being adopted as a family pet. The cat will have extensive house privileges and remain safely inside the home unless arrangements are made in writing prior to adoption. I agree to provide this cat with proper food, water, shelter, love and necessary veterinary treatment. I affirm I will not allow this cat to be maimed by being declawed or suffer from a tendonectomy surgery.

2. This cat has been examined by a veterinarian chosen by [the Agency] and has received a rabies and FVRCP vaccinations as age appropriate. I understand [the Agency] is not making any representations or warranties regarding the cat's health, physical condition, or age. I understand that veterinary problems may arise with this cat, including zoonotic diseases and/or serious illnesses requiring emergency care or surgery, that those problems are my responsibility, and that I will bear all related costs and provide proper veterinary care to the cat in a timely manner.

3. I understand I am entitled to one free veterinary exam at a cooperating veterinarian. If I choose to have other services performed such as vaccinations, I understand I am responsible for that cost.

4. I agree that [the Agency] may make a visit at a mutually convenient time to ascertain that all the conditions herein are being satisfied. If [the Agency] contacts me to inquire about the cat, I agree to make a good faith effort to return the call as soon as possible.

5. If I change my address or telephone number, I will update the microchip registration information either online or by phone within 3 weeks of the change at no charge. Refer to microchip form.

6. If I can no longer keep this cat, I will notify [the Agency] immediately and work with them to place the cat in an approved home. Under no circumstances will I give the cat to a third party or take the cat to an animal shelter.

7. I understand [the Agency] may reclaim ownership of the cat if any of these conditions are not being met. I agree to fully cooperate and willingly surrender the cat to [the Agency] if that is what is necessary for the health of the cat. I understand I will be liable for expenses [the Agency] may incur by enforcing this contract.

8. I understand [the Agency] is not making any representations or warranties about the cat's temperament or behavior. I acknowledge and agree that [the Agency] is not responsible for any injury, damage, or harm caused by this cat and I hereby release [the Agency] from any injury, damage, harm, expense or liability I incur relating to this cat. I also agree to indemnify [the Agency] from any and all such claims and to pay, without limitation, any costs related to such injury, damage, or liability, including, in the case of litigation, any attorney fees incurred by [the Agency] in its defense.

9. I understand the adoption fee is nonrefundable.

I have discussed this contract with an agency volunteer and I understand its provisions (I DID NOT INITIAL OR SIGN THIS STATEMENT, since we did not have that discussion)

This document is intended to be a complete statement of understanding between you, the adopter, and [the Agency]. It may not be modified except in writing and signed by both parties. By signing this contract, you agree that all the above information is true. Any false information/omissions may result in [the Agency] reclaiming the cat. If the cat escapes and you need help finding/reuiniting them, we have info and people to help. Contact us pronto. [

The Agency] reserves the right to refuse approval of an adoption to anyone, at any time. I am prepared to make a lifetime commitment of care to this cat.

Signed : Yours truly.

So essentially my question is, what can be done? She called us back and said she's been researching ball pythons for the last hour, but the board still says no. I feel this is terribly injust and the cat is at no greater risk of harm than being in a home with a dog or children. I'm sure we're all concerned mostly for the safety of the cat, and I can't say he'd be better off back in the petstore/rescue shelter. Any suggestions or legal advice? Has anyone else gone through this before? I know we just got him, but this isn't fair to the cat nor to us. He doesn't deserve to be tossed around from home to home at such a young impressionable age when we are providing him great care as it is. I'm also tired of the ignorance and prejudice against snakes (especially those as mild as ball pythons). I've mentioned working out a deal with them to do a welfare check to ensure the cat's safety for all parties involved, and she finally got back to me just now and said they might be willing to make that happen. We're so afraid to lose him.

Thank you, also, for taking the time to read this and any proved support. <3 <3 <3

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Originally Posted by SylvesterVoltaire

Last Friday, my girlfriend and I went looking at cats at a local Petsmart. She immediately fell in love with a young siamese cat and we filled out an application that night. The next morning we went in to play with the cat and turned the application in. It was noted on his sheet that he does not like to be around other cats, yet he was in a room full of them without any way to escape the chaos. We noticed how stressed he was being around them, to the point of attacking them if they got too close to us as we were petting him. His cage was also shut and 4ft off the ground. We've noticed how anxious he is just jumping off the bed and won't even jump on the chairs or couch, so we think he's not very comfortable with heights. Anyways, at that point they told us we seemed like a really good fit, they just had several applications for him, so they needed to make calls and they'd get back to us. Within a couple of hours we were told we were approved, so I went to Petsmart, paid for him, and took him home. Since bringing him in, he has been a non-stop purring machine and we've all been bonding terrifically.

Now, today I got a call and they said their volunteer made a mistake and they don't give cats to homes with snakes. The foster mother was "beside herself" when she heard they were in a house with snakes. On the application, I nearly omitted that fact, but decided to be honest in case they made a housecall. I am aware of the prejudice against snakes and it KILLS ME. I wrote that I had 3 ball pythons that were securely enclosed, plain as day on the app. Now they want to remove the cat from the home because it is in a dangerous situation. I tried to explain that my ball pythons couldn't eat the cat, if that's what they're worried about, and that I'm not an irresponsible snake owner as some people can be. (God, we've probably all heard those horror stories that start with "Oh! I had a snake once! It...[proceeds to tell me how their snake died tragically]")

According to the contract:
1. I agree this cat is being adopted as a family pet. The cat will have extensive house privileges and remain safely inside the home unless arrangements are made in writing prior to adoption. I agree to provide this cat with proper food, water, shelter, love and necessary veterinary treatment. I affirm I will not allow this cat to be maimed by being declawed or suffer from a tendonectomy surgery.

2. This cat has been examined by a veterinarian chosen by [the Agency] and has received a rabies and FVRCP vaccinations as age appropriate. I understand [the Agency] is not making any representations or warranties regarding the cat's health, physical condition, or age. I understand that veterinary problems may arise with this cat, including zoonotic diseases and/or serious illnesses requiring emergency care or surgery, that those problems are my responsibility, and that I will bear all related costs and provide proper veterinary care to the cat in a timely manner.

3. I understand I am entitled to one free veterinary exam at a cooperating veterinarian. If I choose to have other services performed such as vaccinations, I understand I am responsible for that cost.

4. I agree that [the Agency] may make a visit at a mutually convenient time to ascertain that all the conditions herein are being satisfied. If [the Agency] contacts me to inquire about the cat, I agree to make a good faith effort to return the call as soon as possible.

5. If I change my address or telephone number, I will update the microchip registration information either online or by phone within 3 weeks of the change at no charge. Refer to microchip form.

6. If I can no longer keep this cat, I will notify [the Agency] immediately and work with them to place the cat in an approved home. Under no circumstances will I give the cat to a third party or take the cat to an animal shelter.

7. I understand [the Agency] may reclaim ownership of the cat if any of these conditions are not being met. I agree to fully cooperate and willingly surrender the cat to [the Agency] if that is what is necessary for the health of the cat. I understand I will be liable for expenses [the Agency] may incur by enforcing this contract.

8. I understand [the Agency] is not making any representations or warranties about the cat's temperament or behavior. I acknowledge and agree that [the Agency] is not responsible for any injury, damage, or harm caused by this cat and I hereby release [the Agency] from any injury, damage, harm, expense or liability I incur relating to this cat. I also agree to indemnify [the Agency] from any and all such claims and to pay, without limitation, any costs related to such injury, damage, or liability, including, in the case of litigation, any attorney fees incurred by [the Agency] in its defense.

9. I understand the adoption fee is nonrefundable.

I have discussed this contract with an agency volunteer and I understand its provisions (I DID NOT INITIAL OR SIGN THIS STATEMENT, since we did not have that discussion)

This document is intended to be a complete statement of understanding between you, the adopter, and [the Agency]. It may not be modified except in writing and signed by both parties. By signing this contract, you agree that all the above information is true. Any false information/omissions may result in [the Agency] reclaiming the cat. If the cat escapes and you need help finding/reuiniting them, we have info and people to help. Contact us pronto. [

The Agency] reserves the right to refuse approval of an adoption to anyone, at any time. I am prepared to make a lifetime commitment of care to this cat.

Signed : Yours truly.

So essentially my question is, what can be done? She called us back and said she's been researching ball pythons for the last hour, but the board still says no. I feel this is terribly injust and the cat is at no greater risk of harm than being in a home with a dog or children. I'm sure we're all concerned mostly for the safety of the cat, and I can't say he'd be better off back in the petstore/rescue shelter. Any suggestions or legal advice? Has anyone else gone through this before? I know we just got him, but this isn't fair to the cat nor to us. He doesn't deserve to be tossed around from home to home at such a young impressionable age when we are providing him great care as it is. I'm also tired of the ignorance and prejudice against snakes (especially those as mild as ball pythons). I've mentioned working out a deal with them to do a welfare check to ensure the cat's safety for all parties involved, and she finally got back to me just now and said they might be willing to make that happen. We're so afraid to lose him.

Thank you, also, for taking the time to read this and any proved support. <3 <3 <3

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First, that's terrible. I agree, ignorance towards snakes.

Secondly, good for you for being honest.

Third, shame on them for missing that, giving you a cat, and taking it back.

What a horrible situation all around.

I feel for you.

Sounds like bull to be honest. Petsmart sells ball pythons. I worked at petsmart for a while, but the adoptions are usually through a different organization. From what I remember though a petsmart employee would fill out the paperwork and that was that. (But of course I never saw what went on afterward) Do you know which organization this is through? The contract doesn't say anything about pythons, so that's a plus. I hope everything works out.

A full grown cat would be more than a match for a full grown ball python.
the snake has quick strike, and muscle, but the cat is far greater armed, with huge fangs and razor sharp claws.
ignorance! The ball python is the one at risk, in a fair fight, my money wiuld be on the cat. They are fearsome predators.

regardless of these facts, you describe yourself as an exceptionally resonsible pet owner, and i doubt you would ever allow the two predators to be in contact. I wish you a fair trial, and your new pet cat is not unjustly taken from you.

Just another reason to stop shopping at petsmart.

I'm speechless. I'm too astonished at how ridiculous and ignorant they were to you. Completely unreasonable and unfair to you, I'm so sorry op :(

First of all wow... that’s just down right f’d up! Second,” I understand [the Agency] may reclaim ownership of the cat if any of these conditions are not being met. “

I’m no lawyer but I’ve done and dealt with a lot of legal issues for my job. I’ve been to court hundreds of times, sat on a witness stand just as many times and know a lot or so I think. That contract says nothing about snakes or other animals, nor does it say they can take the cat from you for their own mistake or lack of reading. It says if any of the conditions of the contract aren’t being met. Which they aren’t.

Id push legally and threaten legal action. An agency like this isn’t going tk want to deal with the cost of a possible law suit. Nor do they want the bad press that could come from this.

Id act like the snake here.... his and pop off as best you can. Even if you don’t intend to do anything. Sometimes yelling and screaming and making a scene is enough. Get your local newspaper and or news station involved if need be. Go on social media I’d even go as far as calling the ASPCA or your local animal cruelty agency involved. They are supposed to show love and equality for all animals.

you aren’t living in a studio apartment with snakes crawling all over and the cat has to avoid them or vice versa.

Id also make sure the snakes are in their own room with a door that remains locked. Your best defense is going to be that neither knkw the other is even in the house and they will never cross paths.

Harp on the language of that contract to no end. If you’d like post pictures of the actual contract or Pm Me and I’ll gice you my email. I’ll read it and point out every loop hole and what language to press it’s all about the language and the contract.

Thats very noble that you were honest. I am also to a point. Sometimes these organizations are off the chain into your personal business that has nothing to do with the safety of the pet. I wont be screwed with like that so I only give the info I know pertains. If I followed every nonsense rule these places have 3 dogs I had for 13 healthy years wouldn't of lived that I took of a kill list at our NY kennel. I brought them home when I Volunteered there and was not honest to save them.
If I were you I would tell them the cat got out. They will follow up im sure. Return the calls for awhile then tell them if they dont stop harassing you over a cat you'll be talking to law enforcement about Harassment. Get a vet that isn't affiliated with them what so ever and enjoy you new pet.
Some people might think this is inappropriate, well no more so than this situation they put you in.. On another note, if for any reason you dont want the cat after this boloney, demand a refund as you dont want anything else from them and let them know you'll be reporting them to the BBB and anyone else who will listen to the nonsense they pulled.


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Wow. Wow, wow, wow wow. I am so sorry, OP. This is ridiculous, and is definitely a black mark on the adoption agency.

From the sounds of things, there's nothing in the contract that specifies what sort of pets you may or may not own in order to be eligible to adopt a cat. Nada. Not a thing. I would point this out until you're blue in the face. Contracts also tend to be legally binding, so the fact that they allowed you to take the cat home and approved the paperwork before trying to revoke your cat would not look good for them in a court of law. I think at the very least threatening legal action would be a good idea, and it might even be good to contact a few lawyers in the area just to back you up if need be.

Do you have locks on your ball pythons enclosures? If they agree to a wellfare check, having locks on the enclosures themselves could only help them feel more reassured that the cat is indeed safe.

Ask them to direct you to the conditions of the contract that you are not meeting. They approved the adoption. You have the cat in your home now, right? I don't see anything in there mentioning snakes specifically so it was their mistake for approving you if they have an unwritten rule. As far as I can see, with no legal knowhow whatsoever, they have no grounds to remove the cat from you at this point. The whole, "snakes are dangerous" bit is too subjective. Only way I could see them being able to pull off the 7) at this point is if they had mentioned snakes in the contract.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John1982

Ask them to direct you to the conditions of the contract that you are not meeting. They approved the adoption. You have the cat in your home now, right? I don't see anything in there mentioning snakes specifically so it was their mistake for approving you if they have an unwritten rule. As far as I can see, with no legal knowhow whatsoever, they have no grounds to remove the cat from you at this point. The whole, "snakes are dangerous" bit is too subjective. Only way I could see them being able to pull off the 7) at this point is if they had mentioned snakes in the contract.

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100% agreed.

As others have mentioned, I don't think they can legally do anything since they approved the adoption and let you take the cat home.

Don't answer their calls or emails. If they want that cat back they are going to have to fight for it!

Ugh what a mess. There's a lot of really over the top ridiculous rescues these days that have so many rules and regulations it's next to impossible to adopt. Finding one run by reasonable minded people is harder and harder each year. FWIW I'm considering adopting a bengal which are smart, strong, mischievous kitties and the rescue was fine with me adding a child safety knob to the reptile room to prevent the cat from getting in, once they made sure the snakes were properly contained and wouldn't be allowed around the cat they had no issue. A cat poses far more danger to a ball python than the other way around. Generally actually enforcing these types of contracts is far more difficult and costly than what is worth so I guess it depends how far you want to push things but I'd personally be quite irritated and try to do my best to keep my cat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

First, that's terrible. I agree, ignorance towards snakes.

Secondly, good for you for being honest.

Third, shame on them for missing that, giving you a cat, and taking it back.

What a horrible situation all around.

I feel for you.

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Apparently, honesty doesn't get me very far. They've agreed to meet later this week, so at least they're not seeing this as an immediate threat. I

Thank you everyone for your prompt replies! It doesn't say anything about not adopting out to snake-owners, and in fact, the foster mom even said so herself. She's going to come by later this week to see the conditions of the home and make sure it's safe for him. Funny how between the individual calling us on behalf of the organisation said it was the foster mom and the foster mom said it was the organisation. I did not want this drama, but like what @hannahrenee said, just another reason to stop shopping there. We went to other shelters in the area prior to Petsmart, but this little one seemed to be calling out to my girlfriend especially.

Thanks again. If things get nasty after the welfare check, I'll definitely point out the discrepancies on their end. Not going down without a fight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SylvesterVoltaire

Apparently, honesty doesn't get me very far. They've agreed to meet later this week, so at least they're not seeing this as an immediate threat. I

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Except, as others have said, it might have.

If they had refused to give you the cat that's one thing. But they gave you the cat and then want it back without new information. You told them and they, essentially, changed their mind, or failed to read what you told them.

If you hadn't disclosed that you owned BP's, then they would have leg to stand on. Since you were honest, told them, and they want the cat back after granting the adoption, you DID NOT FAIL TO MEET YOUR OBLIGATION or violate the contract; they did.

Now, how far you want to push this is entirely up to you. However, I think they breached the contract, not you.

Just my opinion, and not a lawyer, but I fail to see how you did anything wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John1982

Ask them to direct you to the conditions of the contract that you are not meeting. They approved the adoption. You have the cat in your home now, right? I don't see anything in there mentioning snakes specifically so it was their mistake for approving you if they have an unwritten rule. As far as I can see, with no legal knowhow whatsoever, they have no grounds to remove the cat from you at this point. The whole, "snakes are dangerous" bit is too subjective. Only way I could see them being able to pull off the 7) at this point is if they had mentioned snakes in the contract.

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I agree with John 100%.

So sorry to hear that the excitement of bringing a new cat home turned into a negative situation. I would be fighting it though. Unless they can show you in the contract, signed by both parties, where it says that the cat can be removed for other pets I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

"7. I understand [the Agency] may reclaim ownership of the cat if any of these conditions are not being met. I agree to fully cooperate and willingly surrender the cat to [the Agency] if that is what is necessary for the health of the cat. I understand I will be liable for expenses [the Agency] may incur by enforcing this contract.


As far as I can see, and since you were honest in the application, I see no reason to doubt that all criteria of the contract are being met. Therefore, I believe you should be able to fight and keep the cat.

I, personally, would be sending the agency and Petsmart letter explaining my disappointment in the situation as well.

Anyway, I hope everything works out for you. Please keep us updated.
Good luck!!!

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Originally Posted by SylvesterVoltaire

Thank you everyone for your prompt replies! It doesn't say anything about not adopting out to snake-owners, and in fact, the foster mom even said so herself. She's going to come by later this week to see the conditions of the home and make sure it's safe for him. Funny how between the individual calling us on behalf of the organisation said it was the foster mom and the foster mom said it was the organisation. I did not want this drama, but like what @hannahrenee said, just another reason to stop shopping there. We went to other shelters in the area prior to Petsmart, but this little one seemed to be calling out to my girlfriend especially.

Thanks again. If things get nasty after the welfare check, I'll definitely point out the discrepancies on their end. Not going down without a fight.

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Keep your guard up.. Im sorry but I fail to look for the best in people anymore and id be afraid they were coming with the intend to scoop the cat up. Dont get yourself in trouble over it, but if anything goes sour let them know you'll be on the 6 oclock news whith the video of them taking a cat from a great home. (One of you record the whole thing) I love the Begging these places do all year long for donations and you cant get an animal out of them to save some lives. I had one place demand a call from my Home Owners Ins Company. I told them to Kiss off and take me to court and this was a 2 weeks after I had the dog. Its almost like they want money to keep all the animals in a shelter and not adopt them out. If someone lived in a City apartment and wanted a Great Dane I would understand, but a cat come on now, and someone that owns a home looking for a dog it just gets ridiculous.
It might not be nice to say but 1/2 the people running these places around here where I live I wouldn't think had the money, transportation or mental health stability to take care of the animals let alone them deciding about me? Hahahhaha
"Things that make ya go Hmmm"


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I already chimes in but another defense you now have going for you is them taking their sweet time to come by!

make sure you lean heavy in that too. If this cat was in immediate danger they should rush right over or get an animal protection agency involved!

like I said before. Make sure the snakes are separate and the door closed and you have no issue.

I actually had to call the SCPA during my divorce because my exotic aquarium was being held hostage and no one knew how to care for the fish and I was afraid they would die. They showed up where they were being held took a full report and told the evil people keeping them from me that if but one fish died under their care it was a felony animal cruelty charge.

You can get an org in your corner and as long as you are properly caring for all your animals. There should be zero issue here.

Personally I would diplomatically tell them to take a long walk off of a short pier and if they want to take the cat back they'll have to get a judge to rule that I was in violation of their contract. You, new cat owner layperson, have no knowledge of PetSmart's adoption policies other than what is in writing on that contract and they can't hold you to a stipulation that isn't on it. Further, if anything in the contract is ambiguous then that works in your favor since PetSmart drafted and presented the contract, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_proferentem.

If their policy is not to adopt out cats to homes with snakes then they need to add that language. Heck, PetSmart sells snakes - what if you purchased one from them the day after you brought the cat home? Would they refuse to sell a snake to you because they have it in their records that you adopted a cat from them? And if snakes are so dangerous to cats why would they keep cats and snakes in the same building?

They have 0 leg to stand on. If it says you cant have snakes is one thing but that's not the case. It says you may be refused if conditions weren't met. You were approved whether it was an oversight or not. Tell them take you to court. If you want the cat, keep the cat. Also it says they may make a visit to your home, nothing on there says that you must let them in. Im sure they will try.

i'm in complete shock at the lack of competence these stores continue to demonstrate. i'm sorry you're going through something so ridiculous.

to keep this short: the only person in violation is [the Agency] and that's by their own admission. THEY MESSED UP. keep whatever correspondence you have where they state they've "changed their minds" as that's proof of their violation; feel free to repeatedly remind them of this. i'd drop the L word (lawyer) like nobody's business; that usually gets people to back off.

their lack of competence and communication caused this. they're just scared of getting punished for their own mistake. the cat is yours. period. i want pics. [emoji3]

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Further, if anything in the contract is ambiguous then that works in your favor since PetSmart drafted and presented the contract, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_proferentem.

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^ bingo. this is your answer, OP. tell them to kick rocks.

Sorry you are going thru this OP, but as far as I can tell you met your obligations, honestly completed the application, they approved you, your interaction with them has thus concluded.

If it were me, I would not take their calls and I would not allow them in my home. The transaction is finished. They can threaten legal action, but they will not go thru with it. They don't have a contractual violations case and the expense would be too great.

Good luck. I don't think your kitty is going anywhere. ;)

P.S. Be sure to update the Caturday thread with pics of your siamese

I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said above. It's awful that they approved and then changed their mind. As someone who has attempted to adopt a dog from a rescue/adoption agency while living in a 700 sq-ft apartment with no other pets, I've seen some pretty crazy requirements (even from small-breed/apartment-breed rescues like chihuahua and Pomeranian). From minimum 8-foot tall fence to fenced yard of >100 sq ft to general terms of the dog never being placed into a crate (not as a specific requirement for a traumatized animal) to monthly home-visits from the organization for 1-2 years after adoption, and more... We eventually just went to the county shelter and found a "bargain" dog we liked; only requirement was if he had not been fixed that we had 2 months to do so; completely reasonable for dogs especially.

Fight them on it. As far as I know, nothing in their contract is violated as long as the cat can't make its way into the snakes' cages or vice versa. Best chance of keeping them from being against it regardless of the cage security is to install a door-closer spring to the snake room (springs the door closed unless being held or propped open) and keep the door closed. I don't think legally they have any leg to stand on, but they could certainly continue to raise a stink despite you closing the door if there's a chance it is left open on accident; possibly by saying owner negligence could kill the cat or something. I'd personally want to just ignore them unless they try to take it to court, though I don't know if I'd be brave enough... I'd see if you can get a lawyer to let you know where you stand legally in this and act accordingly. I like the idea of the "hiss and mock-strike" strategy and it sounds like it would probably work perfectly if they're not confident they could win a legal battle. The biggest thing that concerns me is if you don't get legal counsel, if they do bring it to court, the bit under 7) that says "I understand I will be liable for expenses [the Agency] may incur by enforcing this contract."

So, see what a lawyer thinks on whether you have any risk from them under the terms of this contract. If they say the rescue can't take the cat under the contract, then fight them 110% or refuse to acknowledge them entirely. If they think the rescue may be able to enforce it, the monetary risk if they do go to court for them is $0 due to that last bit of clause 7). It would be entirely on you for their legal fees and your own, by my understanding, and would greatly reduce their hesitance to go to court. (and if it goes to court, it could create some very bad publicity for snake keepers as a whole.. no way the media would report on the case fairly if it blew up like that.)


Possible unpopular opinion: I think all the blame regarding them trying to remove the cat after approval should fall on the rescue/adoption agency and not PetSmart. I don't quite agree with throwing PetSmart under the bus in this case. Yes, they're awful for reptiles care and a lot of other animals they own & sell, I agree with that 100%, but (at least in my area) PetSmart primarily acts as the "host" for the various adoption/rescue agencies to do their adoptions, not just the weekend adoption events, the in store cages as well. From what I've seen locally, employees aren't following a PetSmart-specific policy in regards to the adoptions themselves and it's policy from the adoption agency that is hosted at that store.
I'm not sure how much of the care for the animals comes from PetSmart policy vs rescue policy, but either way the cats at the 5 different stores near me appear as cared-for as you could hope for when their biggest alternative is a shelter. (A foster is not a viable alternative to the store in a lot of cases because not all rescues have enough foster families available, and they would simply have to keep a smaller number of rescued animals, and the surplus would end up at a shelter; my sister-in-law is a cat/kitten foster for one of the few more reasonable rescues I've come across) There are individual cages and one-on-one time out in the visiting room with visitors/adopters and with some degree of regularity with only an employee for exercise that I've witnessed; the only cats kept >1 per enclosure are kittens that appear to be siblings.

As far as I can tell, adopting from the rescue via PetSmart is identical excluding the location to adopting directly from the rescue; contracts vary some between stores near me. Since the biggest issue here isn't the care, the blame falls on the rescue rather than the location.

As far as the cat not getting along with other cats, there's nothing they as a store can do about that, really. I know some stores do a big play-time in the visit room on bigger adoption weekends to draw attention. He may have been there by mistake (new or teen employee?) or brought out to visit with you despite the other cats. For his cage being high/him not liking heights, it's possible that no one knew it was height that was a problem for him. If he was only there briefly with employees varying by day and other cats to care for, they could have thought he was generally stressed by proximity to other cats or moving to the store. Possibly it was the only level an open cage was on when he arrived. The stores don't seem to like moving the cats around much near me, likely for similar reasoning behind why we give snakes acclimation time when we bring them home or change their cage dramatically. Maybe they were balancing his seeming general stress by letting him continue to acclimate in his environment without change?
Or this particular store is awful with cats despite instructions from the rescue. I don't really know. I can just think of a number of fairly good (and imo plausible) reasons for most of the things the store may be at fault for.

I might get some hate for offering defense for PetSmart here, but that's fine. They aren't even usually without fault, but it makes me uncomfortable when folks jump anyone so quickly in instances that may not be their fault.

Can't say that I am surprised, years ago when I tried to adopt a dog we went to adoption events held at petsmart by specific rescue groups, turned me off pretty quickly as the question ask by volunteers/fosters were as if I was actually adopting a child (not sure how someone gets approved), we went to our local humane society a week later and adopted our dog very easily signed the contract which was simple (without crazy demand) and that was it.

Some groups make it very difficult to adopt out animals and then they wonder why people do not adopt.

Now in your case if there is nothing in the contract mentioning not adopting out because you own snakes they have not leg to stand own, they just do not want to piss off their foster person who has obviously nothing better to do than play god and judge. :rolleyes:

Based on their contract there is not much they can do, they cannot even get their way in the door as you can refuse entry and I doubt they will come back with the police department to legally get entry and inspect your home and take back the cat.

This has to be about the most ridiculous nonsense i've ever heard! Just simply ignore them and don't give the cat back. Problem solved... Tell them to stop contacting you and if they don't, file harassment charges.

These people are over-reaching, they gave you the cat and you signed a contract. They have nothing in the contract that could force you to hand over the cat if it were to come to legal action. At least, not that I would assume. I agree, you should threaten legal action here, the cat is not in any danger, and someone's fear of an animal shouldn't stop you from having the cat. That's the main reason I tend not to adopt from rescues, they often will refuse to adopt to a home with snakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannahrenee

Just another reason to stop shopping at petsmart.

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The adoptions aren't through Petsmart, adoption agencies simply have a spot there to help adopt out cats, like pretends2bnormal said in their post. They aren't affiliated with the company. There are other reasons to not shop at Petsmart, at least as long as they sell live animals, but in this instance the rescue organization needs to be brought to fault.

I think some rescue groups go overboard because they have seen the worst of the worst how people treat their animals.

For example, my dog is a large breed. At the time the rescue group found her, she was only 28 pounds at 2 years old :O. She should have been at least double that. Needless to say, at 6 years now she is medium sized.

The adoption process was similar to adopting a child. Besides the normal calls to my friends and Vet, they actually made a home visit to inspect the house, yard, and fence.
They actually required her to be an inside dog and even what kind of collar! And strongly urged that she be crate trained.

There were other small details as well. But I couldn’t be happier with my companion. She was worth it! [emoji4]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cd4c4a5861.jpg

What everyone here needs to understand is these rescue agencies see the worst of people and how they neglect and abandoned animals. It can't help but make people jaded. The fact they have these rules is because they err on the side of caution. I have rescued dogs for over 20 years and have happily gone through these levels of hoops to ensure I was the best match for an abandoned dog.

I can see this as a reasonable concern by a group that deals with the worst people do to animals. They do not know you nor do they know your snake. To introduce a potentially traumatized cat to a snake can reasonably be assumed is a potential for disaster. Instead of trying to fight them on this see if they will work with you and make sure you do everything to prevent the cat from interacting with the snake (which you should do anyway. Dogs and cats should never interact with snakes). If you lose this cat because of a potential to them being a negative situation, take it as they want what is best for the cat, not what is best for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

What everyone here needs to understand is these rescue agencies see the worst of people and how they neglect and abandoned animals. It can't help but make people jaded. The fact they have these rules is because they err on the side of caution. I have rescued dogs for over 20 years and have happily gone through these levels of hoops to ensure I was the best match for an abandoned dog.

I can see this as a reasonable concern by a group that deals with the worst people do to animals. They do not know you nor do they know your snake. To introduce a potentially traumatized cat to a snake can reasonably be assumed is a potential for disaster. Instead of trying to fight them on this see if they will work with you and make sure you do everything to prevent the cat from interacting with the snake (which you should do anyway. Dogs and cats should never interact with snakes). If you lose this cat because of a potential to them being a negative situation, take it as they want what is best for the cat, not what is best for you.

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Interesting perspective SDA.

You make a lot of sense.

I think the issue here is that the OP disclosed they owned snakes, they granted the adoption, and then changed their mind.

I totally understand that the agencies ultimately want what's best for the animal being placed. Ignoring the issue of whether a house with snakes is okay for a cat, and vice versa, they should have read the adoption application before granting the adoption.

I think that's what's shady here. If they were a well run agency, or the person granting the adoption had done their job, they should have just said NO in the beginning.

That's the part that bothers me the most.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

I think the issue here is that the OP disclosed they owned snakes, they granted the adoption, and then changed their mind.

I totally understand that the agencies ultimately want what's best for the animal being placed. Ignoring the issue of whether a house with snakes is okay for a cat, and vice versa, they should have read the adoption application before granting the adoption.

I think that's what's shady here. If they were a well run agency, or the person granting the adoption had done their job, they should have just said NO in the beginning.

That's the part that bothers me the most.

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This. And if they don't want anyone with snakes to adopt in the future, that's something they need to put in the agreement so that snake owners are aware before they even walk out the door with the cat.

SDA and Reinz have good points. Adopting or buying cheap animals to use as bait for dog fighting is a pretty big concern, which is why it's usually advised to charge some sort of rehoming fee. Good rescues also don't want the animal to be bounced from home to home if it isn't a right fit: Much better for everyone involved if the right family is found first, rather than through trial and error. Even a lot of breeders now require that one fill out an application, with questions that very closely resemble those rescues use. However, some can be a little too nitpicky. It doesn't make much sense to ban snake owners from owning other pets simply because they have snakes, especially smaller varieties.

I've worked with a rescue, I've fostered, I still rescue kittens when there is one in need, although now I do it on my own, and I also carry all the cost myself.

I do know what goes into rescuing (emotionally, financially, time wise) However, that does not excuse a rescue group from acting so unprofessional and irrational.

Their very own contract PROTECTS the new owner at this point. New owner has done everything right, been truthful, been accepted, signed off by both parties, the cat has moved in, they've gotten attached.

How dare that group put the new owner through all that grief over absolutely nothing. They don't have half a legal leg to stand on. As a matter of fact, at this point the new owner could very well go after THEM for being harassed and being threatened to have their new pet removed from them. If you are a animal lover, you should understand that one can love all kinds of animals. And if you do not "understand" or "fear" a certain animal, you should do your research OR put a clause into your contract about not adopting out to reptile owners.

No way would I keep entertaining this circus. I would tell them NICELY but in no uncertain terms that I will NOT put up with any further harassment. Furthermore, I would tell them that I would get in touch with Petsmart headquarters to let them know that this rescue group, that is using THEIR premises to adopt out animals (Petsmart allows that out of kindness) discriminates against snake owners. An animal which Petsmart themselves promotes and sells.

If the rescue group faces loosing their location to conduct their rescue business they will back down right quickly.

Like I've said, I've worked with and around rescues, I rescue myself. I understand being picky, I understand contracts. I understand "worries" about where and how the animals end up. But this is just pathetic.

If anything, that cat will be a danger to the Ball Pythons. And if someone wanted kittens for snake food , they would go get one of the many free ones on craigslist, not pay for a rescue and sign a contract.

I would not let them into my house, or at least, I would tell them I may allow them to visit if they want to "learn" something about snakes. But I would let them know beforehand, that giving the cat back or being threatened to having to do so is NOT going to fly. And that the visit was NOT in any way going to be a deciding factor.

My mother-in-law adopted a dog and had issues with the place.

I swear some of these "organizations" think they're adopting kids out. I could see a home visit for a kid but for an animal.... Nope, not my house. Maybe I'm just too private.

Applications, home visits, meet and greets? No thank you.

I worked at Petsmart in my teens. As mentioned before, Petsmart does the "hosting" for the rescue organization. I adopted out 1 or 2 cats while I was there. Petsmart is not at fault. I don't agree with Petsmart's animal care, but they're excluded from this.

I'd make copies of your contract and never let the rescue touch the original again. The rescue was not clear on other pets. If they have a problem with bps, it should be stated in the contract. Word of mouth is means very little in the court of law. It can just turn into "he said she said". The contract is the only valid proof that can be shown to a judge, if it came to it. Who even knows how long they researched bps, or of they researched at all.

The only thing I see that hasn't been mentioned is (if they make a visit #4) you use a heating source for your bps that your newadoptee can burn itself on. That would be potential harm for the cat leading to retrieval of your adoptee (#7). A closed room fixes this easily, but if you decide to keep the room open this I believe it's of importance and would need to be addressed. Other than this I see no harm your snakes can do if they are locked behind a terrarium or tub and there is that barrier there separating them from the adoptee.

Everyone is right, you do have higher ground. It was the rescues fault. They need to learn from this and adjust their contract as they see fit for future adoptions concerning reptiles, snakes, mice, monkeys, tigers or any other pets for that matter. They have left out any specifics on pets not allowed in the same home with their adoptees.

I wish you the best!

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There have been a few mentions that Petsmart is not to blame, and that it's the adoption agency at fault. Well, I agree and disagree. The animal was purchased from a Petsmart store. Petsmart does business with this agancy. Petsmart deserves some of the credit here. Of course, the adoption agency deserves the bulk of the blame, but in my eyes, Petsmart is guilty by association.

Paralegal with over 8 years of experience in torts and breach of contract work in both Paintiff and Defendant sides. This post is not legal advice as I am not an attorney and it is strictly my opinion based on my personal and work experience.

I read what was posted as the contract. OP mentioned it was unsigned but that matters little as there was a contract in a sense of the agency approved and accepted payment in exchange for letting him adopt (buy) their cat. Going by the post, and what was written in bold, it does not appear to apply to the adoptee in question. It mentions nothing about other companion pets at home and its compatibility, much less what species it is. Does that cat have access to shelter, food and water? Was it declawed or maimed in any way by you or a vet after the adoption? If the answers are no, it seems you meet the contract conditions and therefore, there is NO breach that meets its clause where it stated how it is legally allowed to get the cat back.

My suggestion to you, if it has not been done so, is REFUSE further communication with the foster and agency. Do not allow the foster mom and the agency to your property. You are opening yourself a possible can of worms even though your heart is in the right place. Reason being is, if they intent to proof that you have breached the contract, they will find an excuse to do so, assuming that they realized that they don't have a case. For example, foster mom comes in, looks around and in her opinion, might find something to her dislike or to justify her worries if she fears snakes. Not only that, she might suspect you of animal neglect if she funds something wrong. It is just not worth it to take such risks and they have no legal ground to enter your home.

What is the worst that can happen? They would take you to court. Let them. Any self righteous person files suit and believes that they have a case. What a waste of the judge's time but let the judge deal with them. As the Plaintiff, they will have to proof their case. Keep all your communications with them in writing and save them somewhere. Check your state's statute of limitation on contracts to see how many years that they have to come after you, usually counting from "the date of breach" or the first date that they notify you that they want the cat back.

I used to volunteer at rescues for years and stopped since then. Pet people can be quite crazy and anti-people. I would rather stay away from them.

If they let the cat go home with you after your having provided complete and accurate information, it would appear that with the payment of the adoption fee the contract was finalized and complete. If they now seek a return of the cat on such spurious grounds, they are opening themselves up to being sued for breach of contract and whatever emotional injuries you might suffer as a result of the loss of your cat.

I'm not sure of how the law reads in your location so, if it really matters, I would speak with a friendly lawyer about it.

Good luck!

<><Peace

Everyone is correct.

Do NOT let them come to your house and tell them to stop the harassment as of now or you will have your legal counsel take over.

This is ridiculous.

I would also let them know that you will be in contact with Petsmart if they do not cease their harassment. Petsmart needs to be told about their practices.
They will not take that to the next level. They already know they have no legal right to do so, and they are facing loosing their location (Petsmart) to conduct their rescue business, which they will NOT want to happen.

Petsmart lets them use the facility, but they will not continue to do so if their customers are being harassed in that fashion, esp. with no legal rights to do so.

Just tell them you were seeking out legal advice and were told to cease all further communication and interaction, and will NOT allow the home visit because they already said that they will make this visit a deciding factor on whether they might (unlawfully) seize the cat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

Paralegal with over 8 years of experience in torts and breach of contract work in both Paintiff and Defendant sides. This post is not legal advice as I am not an attorney and it is strictly my opinion based on my personal and work experience.

I read what was posted as the contract. OP mentioned it was unsigned but that matters little as there was a contract in a sense of the agency approved and accepted payment in exchange for letting him adopt (buy) their cat. Going by the post, and what was written in bold, it does not appear to apply to the adoptee in question. It mentions nothing about other companion pets at home and its compatibility, much less what species it is. Does that cat have access to shelter, food and water? Was it declawed or maimed in any way by you or a vet after the adoption? If the answers are no, it seems you meet the contract conditions and therefore, there is NO breach that meets its clause where it stated how it is legally allowed to get the cat back.

My suggestion to you, if it has not been done so, is REFUSE further communication with the foster and agency. Do not allow the foster mom and the agency to your property. You are opening yourself a possible can of worms even though your heart is in the right place. Reason being is, if they intent to proof that you have breached the contract, they will find an excuse to do so, assuming that they realized that they don't have a case. For example, foster mom comes in, looks around and in her opinion, might find something to her dislike or to justify her worries if she fears snakes. Not only that, she might suspect you of animal neglect if she funds something wrong. It is just not worth it to take such risks and they have no legal ground to enter your home.

What is the worst that can happen? They would take you to court. Let them. Any self righteous person files suit and believes that they have a case. What a waste of the judge's time but let the judge deal with them. As the Plaintiff, they will have to proof their case. Keep all your communications with them in writing and save them somewhere. Check your state's statute of limitation on contracts to see how many years that they have to come after you, usually counting from "the date of breach" or the first date that they notify you that they want the cat back.

I used to volunteer at rescues for years and stopped since then. Pet people can be quite crazy and anti-people. I would rather stay away from them.

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This right here all day!!! Read this twice and keep it next to you in case you need to read it again if they make you feel vulnerable.
I'd like to hear an update when you get a chance


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Zina10 makes a good point. The rescue does get a lot of exposure being hosted by Petsmart and would not want to lose it. Depending on the size of your city there would be several other rescue animal adoption agencies that would gladly take their spot. Maybe Petsmart could assist you with some leverage against this particular rescue's mistake. Ask what is the Petsmart store mangers name and to speak specifically with the store manager. Not another manager on duty. If they're not available ask what their work schedule is for the week. They would most likely be available during the week mainly mornings and once or twice during the evenings. Craigafrechette your opinion of guilty by association, is correct, but Petsmart is not attempting to retrieve OP's cat. OP has enough on their plate and shouldn't waste their energy worrying about a non threat.

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I feel for you man. Cats aren't my thing but I can imagine how I'd feel if the same happened to me with an animal I had taken home.

Call me cynical but I don't trust anyone. No one in a position to negatively affect my life knows that I have a Burm and they never will.

any updates?

Thank you all! So as I last mentioned, they decided to "work with us" (nonsense because we rightfully adopted the cat....) and come to the house to see that all was safe and well for the kitten. I was in contact with a board member of the agency (the lady that said they needed to come get the cat 2 days after we adopted him), and two foster moms of the cat. The first foster mom nearly kept the kitten, but couldn't because of her own living situation, so she had a very unhealthy attachment to him and where he was put. The second foster mom was more reasonable and willing to hear all sides of the story. She admitted at first she was shocked he had gone to a home with snakes, but then started doing her researching by calling herpetologists from a nearby zoo and other individuals familiar with ball pythons. We allowed her to come in, see the house, I put my oldest/largest boy on her shoulders after he seemed receptive to her, and it was pretty much over after that. She saw no problem with how my snakes were enclosed and didn't feel like the kitten would be threatened (or really the other way around), and confirmed we were good to go and to enjoy a long happy, life with our new love.

Had they fought us more....I would have gone down with a fight. It wasn't fair on our end to try and revoke our rights to this pet after we signed a contract, paid $100 for him, and brought him home to start bonding. I received a ludicrous email from foster mom #1 that was cc'd to several others with a link to a youtube video of a ball python "eating a rat the size of a small cat". She was trying to fear monger the board members and all other parties involved with the bs email, so in my response I called her out (in a very nice way) that she was clearly coming from a place of fear and lack of experience and then proceeded to educate her. I never got a response so I must've schooled her, but it was seriously juvenile. Throughout this, I was concerned also about other honest snake owners that might have to face the same thing and felt it was on my shoulders to set the record straight in that you can be a responsible snake owner and have cats as well. I understand where they're coming from and the horrors they have to see in animals that are returned to them or new rescues, but stereotyping and having uneducated biases are not okay.

Another thing with the adoption agency is that they are hurting for volunteers, so they admitted that they take what they can get. They're not well-trained and obviously unclear about who to approve and who not to.

I felt so bad for my girlfriend and all of this stress because he was her Christmas present! She finally fell in love with a cat we looked at and then this happens. Shame :( But at least all is well! Thankfully things worked in our favour and we get to keep the little guy. Thanks again for all your advice and time <3


https://imgur.com/a/TwOlK

Can't seem to post the picture of him and my girl (such a newb at this), but here's the link : https://imgur.com/a/TwOlK

OPs photo for the lazy:
https://i.imgur.com/boNGHiN.jpg

i'm so glad this has a happy ending! you handled this much better than i would have lol.

congrats! [emoji3]

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

OPs photo for the lazy:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/boNGHiN.jpg

i'm so glad this has a happy ending! you handled this much better than i would have lol.

congrats! [emoji3]

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Thank you for posting that! I was really trying to be tactful and handle this as best as I could. Truthfully, I was very emotional on the phone during the initial call (who wouldn't be?), so I wanted to come off more level and from a place of understanding of their point. They were wrong, and I knew that, but compliance to an extent seemed the best route for all things considered. :]

I'm glad it all worked out! I feel like the first foster mom should be dropped by the agency and not allowed to foster anymore- how wholly unprofessional and petty of her. Maybe the second one can now impart some knowledge on such situations, should anyone else find themselves in your boat in the future.

Your girlfriend's cat is utterly precious!

You are being an extremely patient person and I commend you for it. Personally, if I PAID to own an animal that I am properly and ethically taking care of I am not going to let numerous people inside my house to inspect anything. I can understand why you did, but just....no.....they can look up the average size of a ball python and understand that there is no danger whatsoever to cat. If this is how they are operating I can understand why they're hurting for volunteers.

Yay! Glad foster #2 had a more open mind, and researching for herself!


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