hello, friends! [MITES, PAM, DEATH, and the gang]

let's cut to the chase: losing two baby beeps within hours was traumatizing. the sight; the smell; trying to understand what happened; struggling to accept i am still a novice; coming to terms with what i could control and what i could not.

for months after: every single time i came home from work and went to my room, i would mentally prepare, and take a DEEEEP breath, to find that smell again, just to try and prepare if someone else died...i expected it. EVERY. DAY. for months.

i had to step away from the forum. HAD to. social media has always been a trigger for me (in fact: this is the most personal social media presence i have on the internet besides my freelance business; i quit facebook almost a decade ago) so in hard times i just have to step away. and i have so many beautiful, wonderful friends and ROLE MODELS on here. and im so sorry to them for just disappearing. many of you kept contact and i cannot express how much it really meant to me.

i bought two baby snakes from two very small local breeders who are actually friends with one another. since we were all so chill and friendly, open, we agreed to meet at an (essentially a swap meet) event that involves local animal breeders. this works well for pet animals that need papers and shots; reptiles don't.

one of my breeders had his young son there, who was not displaying any sort of sanitary behavior as he walked around the entire building with a ball python trying to sell it to other ball vendors. the mites started on the animal bought from this breeder after i witnessed the son handle my snake i bought later.

as my two new snakes' QT was running for a day or so, i notice the mites on the paper towel. mite meltdown went into full gear with PAM for the bins and Frontline for the animals.

ive read EVERY. DAMN. THING. about mites worth reading. SINCE I LEARNED WHAT A MITE WAS. for half a decade. ive read the article which details the entire lifecycles and why you have to be diligent and relentless. ive read other poster's stories; successes and failures.

and you just assume it could never happen to you.

there's a post around here that was shared within the past year (i apologize for not linking) about PAM poisoning. when i read it i started tearing up...because it's exactly what i experienced, except no one got better.

again, i retraced every step of what we went through, and i started realizing how often i caught those babies in their water dishes; because the dishes were HUGE compared to the 6qt bins these babies were in. it took less than a week for me to notice a sliiiiight difference in behaviour (as much as you can monitor snakes in QT; mainly noticed skewed hides), then a day or so from noticing the difference in behavior to the passing (i hope that makes sense).

looking back at their QT tubs: the water dish was essentially DIRECTLY outside their hide. if they wanted to explore, they almost had no choice but to go into their water.

[YES, i kept their water dishes out for 12-16hrs after PAM applications]

and that's the only major mistake i can think of. maybe i didnt let things drying enough...there were dried drops visible on the hides when i think back, but DRIED.

add a wet snake...

my friends...my peers...anyone whose helped me: it's been so hard. i made the mistakes i made. i killed two beautiful animals who i only just named a week before they passed. because of oversight and ignorance.

ive been so weirdly terrified of being looked at some type of way from you all...for these two snakes passing in my care. honestly i hope you all understand and forgive me.

PLEASE ask any and all questions about what happened. i am more than willing to share my story.

my established crew is well. im just trying to keep my girls up in weight and maybe im a little scared to pull the breeding trigger (i dont want to do it unless i have my own place, but maybe that's an excuse). but i want my females at the established weights for a steady amount of time...

i love my babies. Corny and Wavvy too! everyone is doing okay; hoping i can get into the swing of posting pics within a few weeks...that's a goal id like to have for myself. just wanna feel normal and be a part of this community again.

SHOUTOUT to the BP fantasy football league!!! thank you guys so much for allowing me to continue to be a part of this community by proxy and in the league without judgement!!! I SUCK AT FANTASY FOOTBALL!!!

if anyone has a pic request from my crew ill do my best but it's JUST two days after feeding (ima wednesday feeder)!

thank you, BP.net

[emoji177]

Hey, I'm so very sorry for what you went thru...and it's not for anyone here to "forgive you"...I think you just need to forgive yourself...you did your best, & stuff like
this happens...it's awful, but all you can do is move on, & learn from any possible mistakes. I've missed you around here, btw. Welcome back...& hugs! None of us
gets thru life without some bad things happening, trust me, so no more beating yourself up, ok? We're all just humans here. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Hey, I'm so very sorry for what you went thru...and it's not for anyone here to "forgive you"...I think you just need to forgive yourself...you did your best, & stuff like
this happens...it's awful, but all you can do is move on, & learn from any possible mistakes. I've missed you around here, btw. Welcome back...& hugs! None of us
gets thru life without some bad things happening, trust me, so no more beating yourself up, ok? We're all just humans here. ;)

---

you're 100% right. i think the last part of forgiving myself is coming back to the community and just continuing to share my (our!) journey.

and you're right again: i guess im not asking for forgiveness, rather im just hoping to come back without feeling the need to defend myself as a good keeper...

thanks for the warm welcome back, Bogie. [emoji4]

BTW, I can remember seeing & also sharing some info about the toxicity of PAM if not used carefully, but thankfully I've never had to use it. It's not only you that's
had problems using it, as I understand. It sounds like there needs to be more explicit directions on it. I've been seeing some others referring to the use of Frontline
on snakes too, but either one would be my last resort, & Frontline was never designed for snakes at all, so?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

BTW, I can remember seeing & also sharing some info about the toxicity of PAM if not used carefully, but thankfully I've never had to use it. It's not only you that's had problems using it, as I understand. It sounds like there needs to be more explicit directions on it. I've been seeing some others referring to the use of Frontline on snakes too, but either one would be my last resort, & Frontline was never designed for snakes at all, so?

---

ive been PMing so many breeders and other forum members about PAM, my experience, and their thoughts on it.

PAM DOES WORK. and honestly it works the best at mite murder!

and i will never use PAM again.

i only say that because there are safer, salt-based (not alcohol-based) alternatives that are just as effective without the huge gamble with animals' health.

my good friend @WhompingWillow has recommended salt-based alternatives but off the top of my head i cannot remember the brand.

I haven't been to any expos in some years, not since I moved to this more remote location, but maybe it's just as well. Mites never used to be that prevalent at
these things...& I don't need any temptation anyway. But another way they get shared is when Petco or Petsmart hosts these "reptile rallies" & people bring in their
own pets to show & share...which would be great if it weren't for the risk of mites or other illnesses being shared along with the snakes. Mites are just miserable,
so I hope someone figures out a safer way to get rid of them.

Anyway, I don't even have to buy or breed snakes to get more...and I'm not referring to the garter snakes living in my back yard. In case you missed it, I now have
3 hatchling Florida rat snakes, compliments of my never-bred adult females that lay double clutches of "infertile" eggs every year, & this year, 3 of them hatched out
after I had the bright idea of incubating the ones that were not clearly slugs. Rather than repeat the long story, here's a link: What a crazy year I've been having. :rolleye2:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...miracle-quot-)

tttaylorrr!!!! It's so good to see your name on here!!!!

Since we've been able to keep in touch, I know you already know this, but I'll remind you just in case :D

You're one of my favorite people on the forum, and I respect the heck outta you. I happily refer to you as a friend although we've never met.

There's no need to ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness is for when you do something wrong. You've done nothing wrong. I believe it was out of your control, and an unfortunate accident. Nobody needs to forgive you. We're lucky to have you here.

If anything, we should be commending you for having the strength to share what happened and be completely open and honest. I know how hard this was on you, and I respect you even more now. Even waaaaay over here in MA, it's crystal clear you've got a HUGE heart, and I'm pretty sure the community here agrees.

It's good to see you around, T.
Stick around, we missed you!!!

Much love!!!!

Welcome back tttaylorrr :)

Sorry for your loss and bad experience. Sounds like you are way too hard on yourself. I don’t think folks here will judge you at all. We know you tried to do your very best. What’s important now is that take what you learned and move forward. I still have respect for you as a great, caring keeper.

Looking forward to your participation again.

tttaylorrr,

So glad to see you on here.

I can only imagine what you went through.

I think other users are correct, we are not here to judge. It is very brave of you to share the sad part of your post so that others can learn from it. We all make mistakes and anyone who questions your intentions is insane.

It's good to hear the crew is doing well.

Keep posting.......we miss you.

Welcome back Taylor. :salute: