Help, ball python trying to escape

I hope im not annoying with all those threads, but i really need help and i never had experience with snakes before. My BP now tries to escape, which is a VERY weird thing for him to try to do, since he always would stay under his fave hide: a long log that touches both the cool and hot side. The problem is i yesterday took out that log, cause it had a bad smell cause of mold, and i didn't want to have a bacteria playground in my BP's home. He started using a stone-like cave that is pretty tight for him, and he'd use it before too, just rarely. He did try to escape yesterday too after i took his log out for a wash (i used vinegar, water and a never used toothbrush to scrub off the mold, but with no success), but he gave up quickly. But today he tried and still tries to get out for much longer, and it has been a hour already. His escaping attempts would happen before too, and rarely, though it was always after he would.. Take a big dump. He also would look hungry on those moments, and after i'd feed him (he would go escapey after a dump right on feeding day somehow ahah) he'd calm down. I tried to open up the plastic tub's lid to look out for any waste (it also seems like he actually did "go to the bathroom", since my sensitive nose is letting me know that there's something smelly in the container) and my snake is REALLY eager to escape, like i can't even look out for anything in the substrate cause he really wants to escape. What's also strange is that he doesn't even seem to care if i have any food or not, before he'd always be alert and stare at any of my moving body part and getting into his striking position, hoping im some kind of huge mouse. I don't know what to do, and what's actually happening here. Any answer will be appreciated.

Can you add a picture of the enclosure? What are the temperatures, humidity, and substrate? How is he trying to escape, pushing on the lid?

He sounds like he misses the big hide that he relied upon, & that the replacements aren't meeting his needs. I'm not suggesting you put back something that's moldy, but replace it with at least 2 separate hides (one warm side & one cool side) that suit him. Many of us prefer the types sold by Reptile Basics & other companies like Bean Farm- they're a hefty plastic (not so easily flipped) with the low ceiling snakes prefer & only one doorway, plus they're durable, washable, & not expensive. It's best NOT to use one big hide that covers both warm & cool sides, as that's not as good of a choice for the snake to thermoregulate themselves, & doing so is essential for their health & well-being.

Also, too many changes to a snake's home, especially when they're fairly new, are also upsetting, so try to "get it right the first time. Besides looking for the home they knew before, when snakes want to escape, it can also mean they're hungry, too hot (what are the temps.???), or other things about their home is uncomfortable or unsuitable.

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

Can you add a picture of the enclosure? What are the temperatures, humidity, and substrate? How is he trying to escape, pushing on the lid?

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I sadly have no idea how to add image here from phone, i will really appreciate if someone could explain me how to do that. But i can describe his enclosure: it's a plastic tub of the same length as him, there's a water bowl on the left (cool side) and the stone hide is near it. There's a digital small square thermometer/hygrometer (currently probably showing the ambient temp on 23.5° C, and humidity is 70%) and right next to it there's a wet box he's currently resting his head on after being active to escape. In the end of the hot side there's another pretty tall hide, with fake leaves right attached to it. After taking out the big log there's now alot of empty space, though he could slither around freely before too. Ground temp on cool side is 26°, hot side is 28.6 but it's probably hotter than that, since my BP moved the thermometer probe up from under the substrate. For substrate i use coconut fiber, and to get out my boy tries to push up the lid.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He sounds like he misses the big hide that he relied upon, & that the replacements aren't meeting his needs. I'm not suggesting you put back something that's moldy, but replace it with at least 2 separate hides (one warm side & one cool side) that suit him. Many of us prefer the types sold by Reptile Basics & other companies like Bean Farm- they're a hefty plastic (not so easily flipped) with the low ceiling snakes prefer & only one doorway, plus they're durable, washable, & not expensive. It's best NOT to use one big hide that covers both warm & cool sides, as that's not as good of a choice for the snake to thermoregulate themselves, & doing so is essential for their health & well-being.

Also, too many changes to a snake's home, especially when they're fairly new, are also upsetting, so try to "get it right the first time. Besides looking for the home they knew before, when snakes want to escape, it can also mean they're hungry, too hot (what are the temps.???), or other things about their home is uncomfortable or unsuitable.

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It's really sad to find out long hides aren't suitable for snakes, cause my BP seemed to really love his log and it feels like im taking away a toy from a small child. I have a stone-like exo terra cave on the cool side, and you might know how it looks like since i saw them around often, and my BP can fit in and ball up there perfectly. What i really want to change is the hide on the hot side, since the entrance is a bit too tight after my snake gained weight, and too tall for a BP's liking. I want to do a clay cave myself and make it as fitting as possible for my pet, you can tell me if it's a wrong decision though. He's now resting his head on things, then trying to get out again for a bit, then just resting again on the substrate where his log was. I wrote the temps on my other reply to the other person btw.

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Originally Posted by Nephil

I sadly have no idea how to add image here from phone, i will really appreciate if someone could explain me how to do that. But i can describe his enclosure: it's a plastic tub of the same length as him, there's a water bowl on the left (cool side) and the stone hide is near it. There's a digital small square thermometer/hygrometer (currently probably showing the ambient temp on 23.5° C, and humidity is 70%) and right next to it there's a wet box he's currently resting his head on after being active to escape. In the end of the hot side there's another pretty tall hide, with fake leaves right attached to it. After taking out the big log there's now alot of empty space, though he could slither around freely before too. Ground temp on cool side is 26°, hot side is 28.6 but it's probably hotter than that, since my BP moved the thermometer probe up from under the substrate. For substrate i use coconut fiber, and to get out my boy tries to push up the lid.

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Just download and use the free TapaTalk app .. it has a simple and free one click photo upload option


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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

Can you add a picture of the enclosure? What are the temperatures, humidity, and substrate? How is he trying to escape, pushing on the lid?

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I understood how to add pics and i'll post one of my enclosure for you and everyone else here to see. I took this photo about a hour ago when he was actively slithering around, now he's in the skull cave, looking tired without his head out of the hide like he would always have, since he's always a hungry beast ready to strike except now. I still worry for him and will read each answer here. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4e05b0c8dc.jpg

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Occasionally if a snake is continually trying to escape it’s simply a case of the RUB being too warm..


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Originally Posted by Nephil

It's really sad to find out long hides aren't suitable for snakes, cause my BP seemed to really love his log and it feels like im taking away a toy from a small child. I have a stone-like exo terra cave on the cool side, and you might know how it looks like since i saw them around often, and my BP can fit in and ball up there perfectly. What i really want to change is the hide on the hot side, since the entrance is a bit too tight after my snake gained weight, and too tall for a BP's liking. I want to do a clay cave myself and make it as fitting as possible for my pet, you can tell me if it's a wrong decision though. He's now resting his head on things, then trying to get out again for a bit, then just resting again on the substrate where his log was. I wrote the temps on my other reply to the other person btw.

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RE using one long hide- just saying it's not optimal to provide the range of temps he might need, since heat from one side gets held in & the "cool end" might not be cool enough, see?

But if he likes it, by all means use it, or rather, one like it- it's just that you also said it was toast from mold issues. If this is natural wood, it might help to get another one & seal it first with a pet-safe "no-voc" waterproofing before you use it- that way, hopefully mold won't take it over.

The other thing though- & this is pretty standard advice- is that it's best to use 2 MATCHING hides of the right size (& height & only one doorway), one on the cool side & the other on the warm, so your snake doesn't feel compelled to only use the one he physically prefers instead of the one providing the optimal temperature he needs- & this changes all the time, due to digestion & shedding.

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Originally Posted by Nephil

I understood how to add pics and i'll post one of my enclosure for you and everyone else here to see. I took this photo about a hour ago when he was actively slithering around, now he's in the skull cave, looking tired without his head out of the hide like he would always have, since he's always a hungry beast ready to strike except now. I still worry for him and will read each answer here. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...4e05b0c8dc.jpg

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His "floor plan" is wide open- not enough cover & hides for him to feel safe- BPs hide most of the time in nature, & even when hungry, they're "ambush-predators", NOT active hunters. They grab prey that gets cluelessly too close to where they're hiding. Out in the open, predators like hawks (etc.) have BPs for lunch. Seeing him in his home is nice for you, but apparently it's not making HIM feel at home. Might want to add some fake foliage etc.

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Originally Posted by Nephil

...Ground temp on cool side is 26°, hot side is 28.6 but it's probably hotter than that, since my BP moved the thermometer probe up from under the substrate. For substrate i use coconut fiber, and to get out my boy tries to push up the lid.

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You cannot be guessing what the high temp. is in his home, & 26-28 is okay for cool/ambient, but not warm enough for digestion- his "warm side" should be 30-32*, but you also MUST make sure it's not exceeding that. There's a fine line between health-promoting & un-safe for BPs.

And the temp. probe belongs on the OUTSIDE- never inside where it WILL get moved or wet, & not register accurately. Once you set the thermostat to achieve the right warmth inside, you need to be double checking more than once (& under the substrate where the snake can potentially make contact) with an accurate temp. gun- you cannot rely on what a t-stat is set to, you have to make sure of what it's actually achieving. And it's totally unsafe if the snake can move the probe, your snake can get injured- "burned"- by excessive heat.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

RE using one long hide- just saying it's not optimal to provide the range of temps he might need, since heat from one side gets held in & the "cool end" might not be cool enough, see?

But if he likes it, by all means use it, or rather, one like it- it's just that you also said it was toast from mold issues. If this is natural wood, it might help to get another one & seal it first with a pet-safe "no-voc" waterproofing before you use it- that way, hopefully mold won't take it over.

The other thing though- & this is pretty standard advice- is that it's best to use 2 MATCHING hides of the right size (& height & only one doorway), one on the cool side & the other on the warm, so your snake doesn't feel compelled to only use the one he physically prefers instead of the one providing the optimal temperature he needs- & this changes all the time, due to digestion & shedding.

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I didn't think of the matching hides before, but it's a good idea. I really feel like changing up the skull-like cave first, but now im really unsure since he has been resting there all night, and he used it only a few times before. Maybe he's just warming up now after a long summer, and requires a better quality hide while using the only one he has on that side. Might use something similar to the log before, but sadly the log itself is only good to throw out.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

His "floor plan" is wide open- not enough cover & hides for him to feel safe- BPs hide most of the time in nature, & even when hungry, they're "ambush-predators", NOT active hunters. They grab prey that gets cluelessly too close to where they're hiding. Out in the open, predators like hawks (etc.) have BPs for lunch. Seeing him in his home is nice for you, but apparently it's not making HIM feel at home. Might want to add some fake foliage etc.

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I do realise there's too much space and i do want to add up something, i just didn't yet cause of the natural log that occupied most of the space molded up unexpectedly.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You cannot be guessing what the high temp. is in his home, & 26-28 is okay for cool/ambient, but not warm enough for digestion- his "warm side" should be 30-32*, but you also MUST make sure it's not exceeding that. There's a fine line between health-promoting & un-safe for BPs.

And the temp. probe belongs on the OUTSIDE- never inside where it WILL get moved or wet, & not register accurately. Once you set the thermostat to achieve the right warmth inside, you need to be double checking more than once (& under the substrate where the snake can potentially make contact) with an accurate temp. gun- you cannot rely on what a t-stat is set to, you have to make sure of what it's actually achieving. And it's totally unsafe if the snake can move the probe, your snake can get injured- "burned"- by excessive heat.

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I apologise if i made you misunderstand, but it was just a momentary guess since my BP was just slithering around moving everything and also slightly moving the thermometer up, while i always put it right on the plastic floor under the substrate. When the probe is where it should be, it measures 30° C, just like it does right now after putting it back in place. I did commit the mistake of putting the thermostat probe right with the thermometer's right under the substrate, and since the stat had to warm up through a layer of plastic (as explained from one person in my previous thread) it was overheating and had temp "roller-coasters". I sandwiched the thermostats' probes between the mats and tub, and it all seems to be okay now. I left the thermometer probes in cause they won't make the mats overheat even if (for example) some water spills on one of them, but i do often check if they are reading the temp where they should be and if there's some liquid interrupting them, i also keep them down with a pebble so they aren't that easily movable. But i keep the therm probes in not only for the mat reason, but also cause they read the spot right where the snake can be on, but i can change up things if needed. I will buy a temp gun too, since everyone keeps reccomending one.

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Originally Posted by Nephil

I didn't think of the matching hides before, but it's a good idea. I really feel like changing up the skull-like cave first, but now im really unsure since he has been resting there all night, and he used it only a few times before. Maybe he's just warming up now after a long summer, and requires a better quality hide while using the only one he has on that side. Might use something similar to the log before, but sadly the log itself is only good to throw out.

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"Matching hides" is standard advice for BPs & other snakes. ;) They're shy & they want to hide but tend to choose "safety & security" (ie. the hide they prefer) over the right temperature. If the hides are identical, he'll choose according to the correct temperature.

I would suggest losing the "skull" thing- snakes grow slowly but meals make them suddenly wider- they've been known to get stuck in the holes on such things & need some dangerous cutting (the skull apart) to rescue them- sometimes the snake gets hurt. You never want hides or any decor that have such holes- they're intended for tropical fish- they don't get stuck. You want something like this instead, so the snake can always get out. The skull also has too many openings for a snake to feel secure in anyway. He's using it out of desperation. Your snake is stressed- please fix that a.s.a.p. https://www.reptilebasics.com/images...mbs/mdhide.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

"Matching hides" is standard advice for BPs & other snakes. ;) They're shy & they want to hide but tend to choose "safety & security" (ie. the hide they prefer) over the right temperature. If the hides are identical, he'll choose according to the correct temperature.

I would suggest losing the "skull" thing- snakes grow slowly but meals make them suddenly wider- they've been known to get stuck in the holes on such things & need some dangerous cutting (the skull apart) to rescue them- sometimes the snake gets hurt. You never want hides or any decor that have such holes- they're intended for tropical fish- they don't get stuck. You want something like this instead, so the snake can always get out. The skull also has too many openings for a snake to feel secure in anyway. He's using it out of desperation. Your snake is stressed- please fix that a.s.a.p. https://www.reptilebasics.com/images...mbs/mdhide.jpg

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Those kind of hides you showed me definitely don't look aesthetically pleasing, but something cheap and especially safe for my BP will be perfect. I order things from amazon, but the problem is i really struggle with inches, i only know what cm are ahah ^^". My boy is about 50 cm with something, and he got wider and stronger compared to before when i bought him (he got fat, but not overweight i mean haha). Have you got an idea of what size i should get him? I don't want to do any big mistake again and get him a hide that is too big or small, and almost everyone on this forum knows more things than i do.

Even a few branches and pieces of dried bark would make a huge difference - get them from local parks / woods / forests https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...991838fae4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7fb3d71401.jpg


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Even a few branches and pieces of dried bark would make a huge difference - get them from local parks / woods / forests https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...991838fae4.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...7fb3d71401.jpg


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Woah, looks amazing! I just dont feel like trusting natural wood anymore haha

If you sterilize it by boiling and baking/microwaving it shouldn't bring in any pests or insecticides. I always sterilize everything from outside (usually leaves) to avoid bringing in mites, flies, centipedes, spiders, snails, pesticides, etc.

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

If you sterilize it by boiling and baking/microwaving it shouldn't bring in any pests or insecticides. I always sterilize everything from outside (usually leaves) to avoid bringing in mites, flies, centipedes, spiders, snails, pesticides, etc.

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I don't think "sterilizing" would remove pesticides at all- if there's ANY chance that decor (branches etc) from outside contains any pesticides, DO NOT USE THEM.

Also, while baking (etc) will kill most pests in the wood, it won't stop mold from growing later on. Mold spores are floating around most everywhere, just looking for a home. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I don't think "sterilizing" would remove pesticides at all- if there's ANY chance that decor (branches etc) from outside contains any pesticides, DO NOT USE THEM.

Also, while baking (etc) will kill most pests in the wood, it won't stop mold from growing later on. Mold spores are floating around most everywhere, just looking for a home. ;)

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Boiling usually removes some/most pesticides but I agree, if pesticides are known to have been used in the area natural items should not be used. Sterilizing would likely increase the chance that it would mold later because there's nothing eating spores or stopping the mold from growing.

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Originally Posted by Nephil

Those kind of hides you showed me definitely don't look aesthetically pleasing, but something cheap and especially safe for my BP will be perfect. I order things from amazon, but the problem is i really struggle with inches, i only know what cm are ahah ^^". My boy is about 50 cm with something, and he got wider and stronger compared to before when i bought him (he got fat, but not overweight i mean haha). Have you got an idea of what size i should get him? I don't want to do any big mistake again and get him a hide that is too big or small, and almost everyone on this forum knows more things than i do.

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No, I wouldn't call them aesthetically pleasing at all. :rofl: But you are the only one that will care, your snake will be happy with a secure-feeling "cave", & you can put some foliage over the top anyway to camouflage it- black tends to just become a shadow that doesn't stand out much. What's most important is making a snake feel safe & secure, so they eat & thrive.

As far as converting inches to cm, just google "convert cm to inches" & you'll have a easy-to-use tool come up; you can plug in various measurements to see what size is going to work for your pet.

A little too big won't hurt, you can always wad up some paper or more substrate inside it to make it temporarily more cozy while he grows into it. OK? ;) I'd probably get 2 mediums (@ Reptile Basics https://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box) for him right now- from what you said, he's about 20" long, so curled up, he'd have plenty of room for a while in their size medium. It would probably save $ in the long run (on shipping) to get a couple large ones too, for him to grow into- at least, that's the way I do things- plan ahead- snakes do grow. :D

I don't think in C* temperatures either, so I do the same thing when some threads ask about centigrade temps. (just google "convert C* to F*- SO easy!)

Don't worry, nobody knows everything, not even me. That's why we share our experience here, so we all get smarter & find good solutions. You will too, in time. If there's something you don't understand, just ask.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

No, I wouldn't call them aesthetically pleasing at all. :rofl: But you are the only one that will care, your snake will be happy with a secure-feeling "cave", & you can put some foliage over the top anyway to camouflage it- black tends to just become a shadow that doesn't stand out much. What's most important is making a snake feel safe & secure, so they eat & thrive.

As far as converting inches to cm, just google "convert cm to inches" & you'll have a easy-to-use tool come up; you can plug in various measurements to see what size is going to work for your pet.

A little too big won't hurt, you can always wad up some paper or more substrate inside it to make it temporarily more cozy while he grows into it. OK? ;) I'd probably get 2 mediums (@ Reptile Basics https://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box) for him right now- from what you said, he's about 20" long, so curled up, he'd have plenty of room for a while in their size medium. It would probably save $ in the long run (on shipping) to get a couple large ones too, for him to grow into- at least, that's the way I do things- plan ahead- snakes do grow. :D

I don't think in C* temperatures either, so I do the same thing when some threads ask about centigrade temps. (just google "convert C* to F*- SO easy!)

Don't worry, nobody knows everything, not even me. That's why we share our experience here, so we all get smarter & find good solutions. You will too, in time. If there's something you don't understand, just ask.

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Unfortunately the reptile basics site doesn't accept orders to my country, so i gone to order on amazon with not many choices to choose from (there were only mediums and smalls) and they would also come on November,which i really can't wait for. There was one exception though, so i ended up taking one of the priciest options (a medium) that should arrive on October 21. It's a struggle to get every single good thing here with no problems or high prices, but i hope it will be worth it. Now i have to wait for the hide to arrive, so i have another question (i hope im not wasting too much of your time haha)... Is there any way i can keep my BP calm? I covered the lid with a towel and the most light part of the container with another, but ni ran out of towels to cover up his enclosure with. He keeps being really active and rubbing his nose against the plastic tub's walls while climbing the hides, and it's really concerning for me to see him like this. Should i just calm down and wait? I really don't know what to do to make me and my BP feel better, so i'd really like to get some answers on this.

I forgot that you're not in the U.S.- the "cm" should have reminded me. You can also make disposable hides (dump when dirty) out of cardboard boxes- things like cereal or cracker boxes are about the right height & dimensions, until you find some good permanent ones that work for you. Use what you have available- your snake won't care- only if he doesn't have them. Some people modify plastic containers they buy (like for food, or large plant saucers) but it's hard to find black or dark ones, most (here, anyway) are semi-clear, & your nocturnal BP would rather have a dark "cave". Use what you can both find, afford & cut a doorway into. At least for now- you can worry about being creative later.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I forgot that you're not in the U.S.- the "cm" should have reminded me. You can also make disposable hides (dump when dirty) out of cardboard boxes- things like cereal or cracker boxes are about the right height & dimensions, until you find some good permanent ones that work for you. Use what you have available- your snake won't care- only if he doesn't have them. Some people modify plastic containers they buy (like for food, or large plant saucers) but it's hard to find black or dark ones, most (here, anyway) are semi-clear, & your nocturnal BP would rather have a dark "cave". Use what you can both find, afford & cut a doorway into. At least for now- you can worry about being creative later.

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I put a black and white lamp box half a hour ago, and it was a bit of a struggle to fit it in with my BP in the way (he was climbing my hand after taking the tub lid off, and after taking him he seemed to be calmer but still as always breathing heavily, which is a surprise but not very pleasant i think), but he decided it's a good climbing option to keep trying to get out on. He did see the inside of the box and seemed interested, but still prefers to keep trying to get out. It's morning and surprisingly he is still being active, which is really concerning. He might be too commited to his log, or he just needs some time to relax and decide to try out the cardboard box. Hopefully he just needs time and could care less bout logs, i will wait and see how it goes. What kinda worries me is the magazine smell from the box, (kinda smelling like ink) but not too strong,but you can always warn me bout anything. Also thanks for the help!

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Originally Posted by Nephil

I put a black and white lamp box half a hour ago, and it was a bit of a struggle to fit it in with my BP in the way (he was climbing my hand after taking the tub lid off, and after taking him he seemed to be calmer but still as always breathing heavily, which is a surprise but not very pleasant i think), but he decided it's a good climbing option to keep trying to get out on. He did see the inside of the box and seemed interested, but still prefers to keep trying to get out. It's morning and surprisingly he is still being active, which is really concerning. He might be too commited to his log, or he just needs some time to relax and decide to try out the cardboard box. Hopefully he just needs time and could care less bout logs, i will wait and see how it goes. What kinda worries me is the magazine smell from the box, (kinda smelling like ink) but not too strong,but you can always warn me bout anything. Also thanks for the help!

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Update: he doesn't care about the box, he doesn't even enter any hide anymore, he was just lying down on the ground near the skull-hide, and when i opened the tub lid to remove his waste he woke up and started to try to escape again, and now he's rubbing his nose against the lid. It's really stressing me out, since he never was like this before and to me it sounds strange that he is so desperate for a log, unless snakes can really get attached to their fave hides. This situation just seems never ending at this point.

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Originally Posted by Nephil

Update: he doesn't care about the box, he doesn't even enter any hide anymore, he was just lying down on the ground near the skull-hide, and when i opened the tub lid to remove his waste he woke up and started to try to escape again, and now he's rubbing his nose against the lid. It's really stressing me out, since he never was like this before and to me it sounds strange that he is so desperate for a log, unless snakes can really get attached to their fave hides. This situation just seems never ending at this point.

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I wouldn't use anything that has a chemical smell- plain corrugated cardboard boxes generally don't. You need to find things he can feel snug in that are suitable- no one can do it for you, you need to make it work for your snake. It's always better to have a suitable set-up when a new snake first moves in, than to have to change things around that he may miss- every time you re-home a snake or change their still-fairly-new home, it's stressful for them. That's on you, but forward is the only direction you can go at this point, to find ways to help him settle down. And please do make sure his temps. aren't the problem. How about hunger? Is he due to feed? That's another issue that can make a snake restless.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I wouldn't use anything that has a chemical smell- plain corrugated cardboard boxes generally don't. You need to find things he can feel snug in that are suitable- no one can do it for you, you need to make it work for your snake. It's always better to have a suitable set-up when a new snake first moves in, than to have to change things around that he may miss- every time you re-home a snake or change their still-fairly-new home, it's stressful for them. That's on you, but forward is the only direction you can go at this point, to find ways to help him settle down. And please do make sure his temps. aren't the problem. How about hunger? Is he due to feed? That's another issue that can make a snake restless.

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I tried with half of a cereal cardboard box too, cutting the underside of it also. The entrance is low, the inside is dark, he can fit in there perfectly, but he entered it once and didn't want to go back there again. He continued his escape attempts all day until evening, and now he is just resting his head on the stone hide for some reason.. His temps were and still are the same (cool side 26 C, hot side floats between 29-30 C, but the stat is set up to 5 more degrees cause it doesn't heat up enough if i set it to the exact temp i want), he never moved around so much, and when he was active when he was really hungry it wasn't for a really long while. I give him 2 hopper mice every 5 days, and i should feed him tomorrow, though his restlessness started about a day after he ate if im not wrong. He would still be hungry after 2 hopper mice before, but he'd just keep his head tense waiting for a mouse to pass by while his body would stay in the log. What also i can say is that he did gain weight compared to when he was in the pet shop, but after going to the bathroom he looks thin everytime and doesn't seem that he's in the right BP weight even after 3 months after i took him home,but whenever i try to weigh him he really cant stay still and i cant get his exact weight. I don't know if ball pythons just gain weight very slowly, or if it's cause im not feeding him small rats that will help him with weight.

To weigh a snake, you cannot expect them to sit on a scale. ;) You put them in a container of some kind that they cannot get out of, & weigh them IN that, then weigh the container ALONE and SUBTRACT that weight from the first weight you got of the snake in the container. That will be the weight of the snake. Maybe you're not feeding him enough...:confusd: And there's no "law" that says it can't be more than one thing making a snake restless, either.

Here's a chart (found under BP Husbandry on this forum):

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

To weigh a snake, you cannot expect them to sit on a scale. ;) You put them in a container of some kind that they cannot get out of, & weigh them IN that, then weigh the container ALONE and SUBTRACT that weight from the first weight you got of the snake in the container. That will be the weight of the snake. Maybe you're not feeding him enough...:confusd:

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Maybe.. Or maybe not.. What i can say is long before (when he was really underweight) he'd get full with 1 hopper mouse and wouldn't accept the second, then he would get full with 2, but his latest behaviour suggests he just wants more. I doubt he will accept his food tomorrow, but i will try and see if he will. When i took him from the shop he looked weak and very thin, but after i got to take care of him he gained weight quickly, to the point where his spine wasn't sharply visible anymore. It just looks like after getting to that point he isn't doing much progress anymore, and keeps looking more like a "sausage" than a "salami" shaped BP. I'm scared to overfeed him with 3 hoppers though, so what should i do? I want to switch him to rats when the hoppers will finish, but for now im trying to feed him the right quantity. He's about 7-8 months old, if that info helps. Rn i worry mostly bout making him feel secure, so he can keep eating well. He just keeps trying to escape, resting for some time, trying to escape and so on.

Snakes grow at different rates (depending on temps & available food & genetics, etc) so age doesn't say much.

I suspect he should be eating adult mice, not hoppers att, btw. And sources don't go by the same exact description (or body wts) when describing a size, so it's possible your hoppers are on the small side, & 2 really isn't enough. Some snakes will accept multiple rodents at one meal, others won't; apparently yours doesn't mind, but before you "stuff him to excess", you should WEIGH BOTH your snake AND the prey you're feeding him. We all have better things to do than to keep guessing. ;) And kindly look at the posted chart, please.

FYI- about switching to rats- rats & mice smell and taste differently- some snakes love both, some are picky & don't wish to switch without a battle, so I wouldn't use up all your mice when you try a rat for the first time, until you get his opinion on it.

Without seeing your snake, AND without knowing his weight, it's impossible for us to know IF your snake is underweight or over, etc. :confusd:

Has he ever been fed live prey? IF so you might want to have a vet check his stool for parasites*, just in case that's what's bothering him. (*They are transmitted via live prey, not frozen-thawed.)

Frankly I haven't the foggiest notion what you meant by "sausage" or "salami"? But maybe this will help you:

https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/pr...40%2C493&ssl=1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

To weigh a snake, you cannot expect them to sit on a scale. ;) You put them in a container of some kind that they cannot get out of, & weigh them IN that, then weigh the container ALONE and SUBTRACT that weight from the first weight you got of the snake in the container. That will be the weight of the snake. Maybe you're not feeding him enough...:confusd: And there's no "law" that says it can't be more than one thing making a snake restless, either.

Here's a chart (found under BP Husbandry on this forum):

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png

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I prefer using a snake bag hanging from a pair of angling scales :)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...704f7e9d0e.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Snakes grow at different rates (depending on temps & available food & genetics, etc) so age doesn't say much.

I suspect he should be eating adult mice, not hoppers att, btw. And sources don't go by the same exact description (or body wts) when describing a size, so it's possible your hoppers are on the small side, & 2 really isn't enough. Some snakes will accept multiple rodents at one meal, others won't; apparently yours doesn't mind, but before you "stuff him to excess", you should WEIGH BOTH your snake AND the prey you're feeding him. We all have better things to do than to keep guessing. ;) And kindly look at the posted chart, please.

FYI- about switching to rats- rats & mice smell and taste differently- some snakes love both, some are picky & don't wish to switch without a battle, so I wouldn't use up all your mice when you try a rat for the first time, until you get his opinion on it.

Without seeing your snake, AND without knowing his weight, it's impossible for us to know IF your snake is underweight or over, etc. :confusd:

Has he ever been fed live prey? IF so you might want to have a vet check his stool for parasites*, just in case that's what's bothering him. (*They are transmitted via live prey, not frozen-thawed.)

Frankly I haven't the foggiest notion what you meant by "sausage" or "salami"? But maybe this will help you:

https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/pr...40%2C493&ssl=1

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I don't want to stress him out more with handling, but i am going to show an old pic of how he was before after gaining some weight. He stayed about the same width, and on the hopper mice pocket it's written that they weight from 7 to 12 grams. Some indeed look fatter, some thinner, but i try to get him the ones that look bigger. But i will repeat that ordering hopper mice was my mistake, since i thought they were the right size for him, so i try to give him more than one. Also by sausage and salami i meant that he's long and probably with not enough fat (like a sausage) meanwhile ball pythons from what i understood should be long, but also "fat" (like a salami) haha. But tbh the examples of weight pic you sent now makes me doubt if he's underweight or not, i feel really confused so i think it's better to just weight him. I'll do that after he calms down (if that won't be too long of a wait for) and try to offer him 2 hopper mice as usual today. Also no idea if he ever ate live mice, all i know the shop was force feeding him thawed mouse pinkies since they probably don't know much bout snakes and thought that he still has to "learn" to eat without help, like a bird.
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nephil

... Also no idea if he ever ate live mice, all i know the shop was force feeding him thawed mouse pinkies since they probably don't know much bout snakes and thought that he still has to "learn" to eat without help, like a bird...

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Yikes, he had a awful start with that shop- pinkies are too small for even a hatchling BP & force-feeding is best avoided. He does look a bit thin in above photo, but hard it's to gauge well from just one photo, & at that angle & distance. Either way, understand that hatchling BPs (& other kinds of snakes too) can often look at least 'somewhat thin' because they grow incrementally longer, so they keep eating but don't appear to have gained any bulk (ie. width).

Also, remember that snakes are "designed" to be adaptable & even to grow slowly with meals that may vary a lot in the wild- the best thing for you to do is keep him eating realistically-sized prey on a regular basis. It would be nice to have a weight on him, to better judge what the best size prey for him is right now, but not if weighing him will cause stress that puts him off eating. What I'm saying is there's no "emergency" here- he's still new & settling in- so do what you can to keep him comfortable (as evidenced by him eating) without scaring him. I know that when you're new to keeping snakes, everything seems like a big deal, but it all get easier for both you & your pet...in time. ;) Neither his size or his meals need to precisely match a chart, no matter how much it may seem that way at times here. ;)

Charts are only there to help guide you. When you weigh a snake, OR when you compare their shape to a chart, it matters a lot if they just ate & haven't defecated, versus when they're "empty", or also if they're stressed -many snakes hold in a deep breath & appear to be bigger, or better fed, than when they've relaxed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yikes, he had a awful start with that shop- pinkies are too small for even a hatchling BP & force-feeding is best avoided. He does look a bit thin in above photo, but hard it's to gauge well from just one photo, & at that angle & distance. Either way, understand that hatchling BPs (& other kinds of snakes too) can often look at least 'somewhat thin' because they grow incrementally longer, so they keep eating but don't appear to have gained any bulk (ie. width).

Also, remember that snakes are "designed" to be adaptable & even to grow slowly with meals that may vary a lot in the wild- the best thing for you to do is keep him eating realistically-sized prey on a regular basis. It would be nice to have a weight on him, to better judge what the best size prey for him is right now, but not if weighing him will cause stress that puts him off eating. What I'm saying is there's no "emergency" here- he's still new & settling in- so do what you can to keep him comfortable (as evidenced by him eating) without scaring him. I know that when you're new to keeping snakes, everything seems like a big deal, but it all get easier for both you & your pet...in time. ;) Neither his size or his meals need to precisely match a chart, no matter how much it may seem that way at times here. ;)

Charts are only there to help guide you. When you weigh a snake, OR when you compare their shape to a chart, it matters a lot if they just ate & haven't defecated, versus when they're "empty", or also if they're stressed -many snakes hold in a deep breath & appear to be bigger, or better fed, than when they've relaxed.

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About growing in length.. Thinking about it he does seem to grow longer and fast like a weed haha, dunno if I'm just imagining things. Also about his escapey behaviour.. Yesterday he seemed to calm down after trying to escape a bit in the morning, but then he settled back into his stone cave. Thinking about it.. That moment i saw the digital hygro/thermometer show the air temp at 25° C, while before it was at 23°. Yesterday i opened the lid to boost the tub's humidity and he peeked out like he was observing what i was doing, but after i done what i had to do he was out of his cave, but for a short while. Not long ago today i opened the lid again to boost the humidity and change the water in his water bowl, and now he is out trying to escape again. Looking again at the hygro-thermometer the air temp lowered from 24 to 22, since the warmth got out. So i was thinking.. Maybe it's the kinda low air temp that bothers him? The ground temps are okay, it's just the air temp that gets a bit low, but after covering the tub w a big towel it seems to keep the warmth better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nephil

About growing in length.. Thinking about it he does seem to grow longer and fast like a weed haha, dunno if I'm just imagining things. Also about his escapey behaviour.. Yesterday he seemed to calm down after trying to escape a bit in the morning, but then he settled back into his stone cave. Thinking about it.. That moment i saw the digital hygro/thermometer show the air temp at 25° C, while before it was at 23°. Yesterday i opened the lid to boost the tub's humidity and he peeked out like he was observing what i was doing, but after i done what i had to do he was out of his cave, but for a short while. Not long ago today i opened the lid again to boost the humidity and change the water in his water bowl, and now he is out trying to escape again. Looking again at the hygro-thermometer the air temp lowered from 24 to 22, since the warmth got out. So i was thinking.. Maybe it's the kinda low air temp that bothers him? The ground temps are okay, it's just the air temp that gets a bit low, but after covering the tub w a big towel it seems to keep the warmth better.

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Okay, let me post an update before sleep, writing in this forum kinda gives me a sense of security haha. Today he was trying to escape for a long time again, and he restarted to do the same after offering him the mouse not long ago (i didn't try yesterday cause he was calm all day and night after many days of stress so i wanted to leave him alone and de-stress him a bit, since he also didn't give hunger signs like he would before). I now doubt it's actually the air temp being the problem since even at 25° he still tries to escape again for some reason. I offered him a warm thawed hopper mouse, and he didn't seem to care at all and just started to slither to the escaping direction, which is really saddening to me since he was always a very good eater (i did expect his refusal though). The hide box should come tomorrow, and i will see how it'll go. Feeling sorry for my lil guy.

How often are you offering food? I know you're trying to be good to him, but actually, offering too frequently may stress a snake. Don't offer more than once a week- at least- or longer.

And right now, if you're waiting for a new hide, give him a few days after he has it so he has time to feel comfortable & safe- okay? Remember, most BPs prefer to ambush their prey from a safe vantage point, like the doorway of their hide (& at night), & NOT when they're roaming around their home. And with snakes, it usually helps to wait until they're really acting hungry & look ready to grab prey before you offer- like when they're peeking out of their hide at night.

Try not to worry, this should get easier, even with a fussy little BP. ;) Sleep well...:snake:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

How often are you offering food? I know you're trying to be good to him, but actually, offering too frequently may stress a snake. Don't offer more than once a week- at least- or longer.

And right now, if you're waiting for a new hide, give him a few days after he has it so he has time to feel comfortable & safe- okay? Remember, most BPs prefer to ambush their prey from a safe vantage point, like the doorway of their hide (& at night), & NOT when they're roaming around their home. And with snakes, it usually helps to wait until they're really acting hungry & look ready to grab prey before you offer- like when they're peeking out of their hide at night.

Try not to worry, this should get easier, even with a fussy little BP. ;) Sleep well...:snake:

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I apologise if i confused you, but i meant that i didn't try to feed him on his feeding day (before yesterday) cause he finally looked calm and i wanted to keep him the peace without me disrupting it. So i tried to feed him yesterday (i feed him every 5 days but i waited 6 this time) and he cared only about his chance to get out of his tub. I noticed his escape attempts became shorter and he rests in the cave longer, don't know if he's weak to continue being as eager as before or if he's just giving up. But if he's giving up, i surely do give him motivation to get out again when i open up the tub haha. Also i wanted to add that i wait 5 days to feed him even after refusal. If he finally calms down and feels secure again i expect him to be extra alert when his feeding day comes again, just like he did after shedding. The longer he waits the more jumpy he gets, that's why i rather feed him every 5 instead of 7 days heh.