surrogate mothering question

ok so I would like to know how many babies one mom can handle and care for efficiently. I have 2 moms right now one had 7 and the other had 10. I have a hairless thats due anyday now and heard they aren't so good mothers and sometimes don't lactate. So if this is the case and my hairless isn't caring for them right I would like to know how many one mom can handle. I hope that made sense! Thanks!!

That's a good question as I am having that very issue. I just had two new mother's give birth within 1 week of each other. The first gave birth to 12 pups and the second had 14 (only 10 of which lived as 4 were born dead). Since that time the second mother has taken no interest in her babies and there are only 4 left which the first mother is raising with her 12. I can see the milk rings in the remaining 4's bellies, so it looks like they are getting time to suckle.

My hariless just had seven babies like an hr ago so IDK yet if she is gonna be a good mom or not but have 2 other moms nursing as we speak. One delivered like 3 or 4 days ago and had 7 babies the other delivered lastnight and had 10 and this hairless just had 7 so if she isn't a good mom I am gonna have to surrogate but don't wanna overload the other two!

Orphan pups are less likely to do well when placed with a surrogate. This is often due to the fact that if she is nursing her own brood, the older pups will push the younger pinks away from the mothers teats, and while they can survive, they will not thrive as well as the older pups.

My advice is to not breed the hairless again if she proves to not lactate very well.

In the meantime, check her pinks late tonight and check for full milk bands in their belly. If they don't have milk bands, she is likely not nursing them. If it's the same in the morning, they will need to be given to another mother with pups near exactly the same age.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Orphan pups are less likely to do well when placed with a surrogate. This is often due to the fact that if she is nursing her own brood, the older pups will push the younger pinks away from the mothers teats, and while they can survive, they will not thrive as well as the older pups.

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I would think they would do fine with the mom that just had babies last night. I've had no issues with surrogates when they were matched by size. I've even taken 20+ sized litters and given a few to surrogates with smaller litters of the same size with no noticeable difference in her babies and her surrogates.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Orphan pups are less likely to do well when placed with a surrogate. This is often due to the fact that if she is nursing her own brood, the older pups will push the younger pinks away from the mothers teats, and while they can survive, they will not thrive as well as the older pups.

My advice is to not breed the hairless again if she proves to not lactate very well.

In the meantime, check her pinks late tonight and check for full milk bands in their belly. If they don't have milk bands, she is likely not nursing them. If it's the same in the morning, they will need to be given to another mother with pups near exactly the same age.

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Well I kinda jumped the gun a bit but wanted to have answers before the problem came! I have been checking the pups and she seems to be lactating and nursing them pretty well so far so thats a good thing!!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I would think they would do fine with the mom that just had babies last night. I've had no issues with surrogates when they were matched by size. I've even taken 20+ sized litters and given a few to surrogates with smaller litters of the same size with no noticeable difference in her babies and her surrogates.

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And if I had to surrogate out the babies I was gonna give a few to the mother that gave birth lastnight. I just didn't know how many would be too many for a mom to handle especially with having 10 of her own. So thanks guys for the answers! Didn't exactly get the answer I was looking for in a number but it is all good! Thanks for all the help!!

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Didn't exactly get the answer I was looking for in a number but it is all good

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I'd say 12 since that's how many that can suckle at one time. I'm having to help the runt of a litter from 13 since its larger siblings easily push it aside (size makes a big difference). Today I had to remove one of the full ones and put the runt up to where he had been drinking.

i have some rats that seem like natural born mamies. i will sometimes give on mom two litters because one rat will be neglectful. i never have problems but then again i have a bunch of mother rats to choose from. I dont think you should have any problem as long as the rat u put the babies with is good mom

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Originally Posted by BigLu

i have some rats that seem like natural born mamies. i will sometimes give on mom two litters because one rat will be neglectful. i never have problems but then again i have a bunch of mother rats to choose from. I dont think you should have any problem as long as the rat u put the babies with is good mom

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Thanks, I also have 3 other moms I could put them with if need be. But I did find a dead one out of her litter lastnight!:( And I am so confused on the reason it was dead it looked nice and healthy and was a nice chubby one. There are a few others that were way smaller than this one was! So I am thinking it was accidentally killed by suffocation or accidentally crusehed or something by the mother?? It wasn't chewed up or anything it was blue. Maybe there was something wrong with it and the mother noticed it? IDK any guesses guys? I do know that after this litter I will no longer be breeding the hairless rats!

My hairless female has had 2 clutchs. The 1st clutch she had milk at 1st, then everyday we noticed the clutch was smaller. She went from 15 to 2 in a matter of 4 weeks. 2 lived in the end. The 4th week there was 5 they were under sized. I looked again 2 lived.

Her 2nd clutch she had 12 pups. She had some with milk bands some with out. 2 Died that night she did not eat them. She left them. I gave her babies to 2 other moms 5 lived. More would of if the timing was better. The other 3 moms I had each delivered 3 days after her. It would of been better if I timed it and had the other moms clutchs 1st.

Most of my moms cared for there own babies and had 15 all together. I know I have one great mom that had a clutch of 15 in her 1st breeding and she even tried to care for another rats babies also.

I now know to time the regular moms so the hairless can have her clutch after. You should make sure you count the amount in the clutch everyday to see.

I now also have a haired rat with the hairless gene now that I had give me 10 babies 4 which were hairless. We took my hairless male and breed him to a hooded normal rat. Then took one of the babies a female from that clutch and breed it back to the dad and got a clutch of ten. My hairless also have the Dumbo gene and double rex. So she had 6 hooded 2 of which were dumbo, and 4 hairless 1 was dumbo.

I have Dumbo rats I breed once in a while, Hairless 3 male 2 which are dumbo 1 of the 2 is a dumbo albino, ( 2 of the hairless are father and son. both double rex. The son was born dumbo. The albino has a patch of very silky fir on his belly and nose.) I also have 1 female hairless, 1 brown female normal, and 2 hooded. 1 with the hairless gene. I handle all my rats everyday or at least every other day. I have a few that can sit with me and don't wonder to far from me. Working on training.

Monique

Well my hairless was bred with a hooded and everyone of her babies has the black hooded markings so I don't think I have any hairless. The funny part of it is I only had the hairless mom with the hooded for a few hrs one day but with a lab rat for 2 months but that one day and the hooded is the father! Kinda think thats mind blowing that she was with the lab rat for 2 months and never got prego was with the hooded for a few hrs one day and then put back with the lab rat and all the babies are hoodeds! LOL I guess it only takes once.

And she had a litter of 10 for her first litter which is this litter. All her babies seem to be smaller than the other babies of a different mother that had their litter the same day so IDK if I should foster them out or see if she is gonna continue to nurse them?

I had a clutch that was bigger then the hairlesses. If it is her 1st you can just see how she is by counting the babies and checking them every day and night. We didn't notice til a few days later that with her 1st clutch that she was eating them or not caring for some. Her second clutch I switched the babies gave her some normal babies from the ones that give use feeders for our snakes. Markiej breeds our snakes. So I breed enough to switch them.

If you take the hairless and breed it to the normal haired rat, you then get haired babies with the hairless gene. What you can do is take one of those babies and breed it back to the hairless this gives a chance of 50% hairless. Thats how we got our 3rd clutch. We took the baby when she was ready and breed it back to the dad and got a cltuch of 10 4 which were hairless. They all have hoods but are hairless. The hairless are born with thin light fir.

Monique

Well all mine are going to be for feeders well besides the breeders of course. I have a mom delivering as we speak. She is a creme colored hooded with the stripe down her back. It is so cool to watch the deliveries!! LOL I look in on all my rats too many times a day to count so I have been checking the hairless babies alot. She seems to be still nursing them milk as they are growing pretty good I thought they were smaller then they actually are. I compared them to a haired mom that delivered the same day so she seems to be doing good. As for the hairless, well I just tried to breed them as an experiment to see if they are infact bad mothers but mine seems to be ok so far but I have heard that hairless aren't good for feeders so I won't be making any of them.

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Originally Posted by mermaid1978

I had a clutch that was bigger then the hairlesses. If it is her 1st you can just see how she is by counting the babies and checking them every day and night. We didn't notice til a few days later that with her 1st clutch that she was eating them or not caring for some. Her second clutch I switched the babies gave her some normal babies from the ones that give use feeders for our snakes. Markiej breeds our snakes. So I breed enough to switch them.

If you take the hairless and breed it to the normal haired rat, you then get haired babies with the hairless gene. What you can do is take one of those babies and breed it back to the hairless this gives a chance of 50% hairless. Thats how we got our 3rd clutch. We took the baby when she was ready and breed it back to the dad and got a cltuch of 10 4 which were hairless. They all have hoods but are hairless. The hairless are born with thin light fir.

Monique

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Mammals have litters, reptiles/birds have clutches.... :weirdface

Sorry to hear about the dead one, it could have been a still born or the mom could have kinda ignored it. My rat who just had a litter was giving birth to each baby in really close succession so that she couldn't finish cleaning one before another came, causing her to give a few licks to the newest one and ignore it.

I had to take one out and stimulate it (taking a wet q-tip and rubbing its body, imitating licking) for a few minutes to get it breathing well, and I had to bring the mom's attention to one she had just birthed who was still mostly in the birth sac. I take out the babies once a day and potty them, since she doesn't always get to every one.

Rat genetics are crazy! My albino girls last litter consisted of 1 hood, 2 black berkshires (like their daddy), 7 albinos and one boy who has developed himalayan/siamese point markings who had been just a normal albino until a few weeks after birth. Both of these rats are from petco so I didn't expect anything other than hoods, blacks, and albinos!

I usually have my females alone in a tub when they give birth/raise pups, but when I have a first time mom I often pair her up with an experienced mom. The last time I did that with a first time mom the experienced mom I put her with pretty much took all the babies for herself along with her own. After a few days I caught her and the new mom making a nest together and from then on they both cared for the pups, but the experienced mom took on about 80% of the work.

I might just throw that hairless rat in with the other mom that just have pups and let the experienced mom help her out. Unless you've never housed those females together....then that could turn out bad.

***edit: sorry I didn't realize this was an older thread***

Update: Both of my hairless rats had litters and both were and are a very good mothers! Had one creme colored hooded that her first litter I had to surrogate out but she is on her second litter now and being a good mom so I think I got a pretty good breading stock going now and have kept a few hold back males and females to grow up as breeders!!